RealGM

Dallas Trades:
Josh Howard, Jerry Stackhouse, & Eddie Jones

Portland Trades:
Travis Outlaw, Steve Blake, Martell Webster, & Channing Frye

I dont think the Mavs are really ever going to trade Josh but I'm still frustrated with him from last year. Anyways just wondering what you guys thought about this one. I realize Josh is the best overall talent in this scenario but I think we get the most back. With Outlaw as our new SF and Blake as a very solid back up to Kidd, plus I think Webster has a decent shot in his game, and Frye would give us more depth. Not to mention those are all short term contracts so it makes us younger and free's up cap space. I think it's pretty fair both ways but that's just my two cents !

As a Portland fan, I say no. Dallas gets the better end of it, IMO. Yes, it would be good to have some experience on our team but I don't know what Howard would do to our chemistry. I say cut out Frye and we have a deal.

Dallas gets screwed. Steve Blake and Channing Frye are waste and Outlaw and Webster are just ok.

As much as I like this for Dallas, it takes too much talent from Portland, and there not going to accept.

dirkforpres wrote:Dallas gets screwed. Steve Blake and Channing Frye are waste and Outlaw and Webster are just ok.

I wouldn't say they get screwed in this deal. Yes Josh is the best overall talent in the deal but I think the Mavs get more back in return and I wouldn't call Blake and Frye a waste, there no all stars but they would be good solid depth.

mffl_14 wrote:...but I'm still frustrated with him from last year.

I'm sorry, but I threw the biggest fit and I got over it. We won't get any equal value for Howard right now until he shows he doesn't fold and choke in the 4th quarter or a playoff series. Plus, Portland would not take an admitted pot smoker. That would completely negate all the work they've done...

Geez!

That's why I said I dont think they will really trade him when it comes down to it. But I think he quit on this team down the stretch and that bothers me a whole lot more than the whole pot thing. Not saying that Portland for sure does the deal but him being a self admitted pot smoker isn't going to stop them from getting a quality player.

mffl_14 wrote:That's why I said I dont think they will really trade him when it comes down to it. But I think he quit on this team down the stretch and that bothers me a whole lot more than the whole pot thing. Not saying that Portland for sure does the deal but him being a self admitted pot smoker isn't going to stop them from getting a quality player.

Before, no. Since they got rid of Bonzi, Sheed, and Z-Bo - in a heartbeat...

"your_dallas_mavericks" : Before, no. Since they got rid of Bonzi, Sheed, and Z-Bo - in a heartbeat...

Well it's not just because they are just holy saints up there in Portland. Yes they were tired of the bad headlines with those guys who were involved with it, but in the Sheed trade they got what at the time was a solid player in Shareef Abdur Rahim. At that time he avg. 20pts & 9 rebs. Bonzi they got a 1st round pick from Memphis and he is no where near Josh's talent, and Randolph was a huge salary dump for Portland and a player they didn't need with Aldridge and Oden in place. So it's not like they just gave those guys away because they wanted character guys in place. They were getting older and never got it done with those guys on top of all the other bad stuff.

Anyways I do see your point and it is valid but at the same time it's not like they wouldn't love to take Josh on.

mffl_14 wrote:"your_dallas_mavericks" : Before, no. Since they got rid of Bonzi, Sheed, and Z-Bo - in a heartbeat...

Well it's not just because they are just holy saints up there in Portland. Yes they were tired of the bad headlines with those guys who were involved with it, but in the Sheed trade they got what at the time was a solid player in Shareef Abdur Rahim. At that time he avg. 20pts & 9 rebs. Bonzi they got a 1st round pick from Memphis and he is no where near Josh's talent, and Randolph was a huge salary dump for Portland and a player they didn't need with Aldridge and Oden in place. So it's not like they just gave those guys away because they wanted character guys in place. They were getting older and never got it done with those guys on top of all the other bad stuff.

Anyways I do see your point and it is valid but at the same time it's not like they wouldn't love to take Josh on.

Agreed.

I'm sorry, but this trade stinks for both teams. and their direction.

Dallas (with Kidd) is a win immediatly, like yesterday, team and as of yesterday, Howard, Stack & Jones >>>> Outlaw, Webster, Blake and Frye. Like DFP said, Blake (behind the Jasons and just in front of Barea) and Frye behind Dirk & Bass are a complete waste of a roster spot. Webster and Outlaw would both help, but no where near as much as Howard.

Portland, as mentioned already, wants good character players and Howard and Stack has not fit that mold. They know they will not win it all this year, so to them youth and development are more important than Stack, Howard and Jones.

In short, both teams say hell no!

JES12 wrote:I'm sorry, but this trade stinks for both teams. and their direction.

Dallas (with Kidd) is a win immediatly, like yesterday, team and as of yesterday, Howard, Stack & Jones >>>> Outlaw, Webster, Blake and Frye. Like DFP said, Blake (behind the Jasons and just in front of Barea) and Frye behind Dirk & Bass are a complete waste of a roster spot. Webster and Outlaw would both help, but no where near as much as Howard.

Portland, as mentioned already, wants good character players and Howard and Stack has not fit that mold. They know they will not win it all this year, so to them youth and development are more important than Stack, Howard and Jones.

In short, both teams say hell no!

Your ridiculous and I'm not trying to say this because it was my trade idea either. First off yes the actually Mavs FO wants to win now, but I dont think with this roster as currently constructed its even possible. So the idea at that point is to get younger, which the trade accomplishes, get some talent back with some added depth which IMO it does, and also open up some cap space.

Secondly,Stack is not a bad character guy, he hasn't really been known for that since he was in Washington playing for a crappy team. You could question Howard somewhat with what's recently happened but even so it's not like he is constantly getting suspended for drug use.

You say they want a youth development, I get that but you still need vetrans and you get that in Stack (Jones is just a throw in) and Howard is still a pretty young guy as well and would totally help out Portland. Baylees, Roy, Howard, Aldridge, Oden some how I dont see Portland not liking that line up, I dont care how much Howard's been smoking !

And finally you say Channing Frye is a waste of a roster spot, you could pretty much say the same considering the mins he'll get in Portland with Oden, Aldridge, and Pryzbilla, not to mention last season when Dirk went down yes we had Bass but then what ? Juwan Howard & Malik Allen if that's what you prefer than your crazier than what I thought. On top of all of that Frye would be an expiring so it's not like the Mavs would be tied down with him.

mffl_14 wrote:Your ridiculous....So the idea at that point is to get younger, which the trade accomplishes, get some talent back with some added depth which IMO it does, and also open up some cap space.

If that is the goal, there are a lot better trades out there. PG01 has a lot of good seggestions if that is the route which we are going, but since that clearly is not the way we are going, you are the ridiculous one.

mffl_14 wrote:Secondly,Stack is not a bad character guy, he hasn't really been known for that since he was in Washington playing for a crappy team. You could question Howard somewhat with what's recently happened but even so it's not like he is constantly getting suspended for drug use.

Stack tries to start a fight everytime he gets on the court. I'm surprised he hasn't gotten more technicals than he already has. And this really isn't the point to what I was saying anyways since Stack could be bought out...the point was, if they are looking to save money, they can buy their own players out cheaper than doing this trade. And I'm sure if that is what they want to do, then there are teams under the cap and teams with trade exceptions they can do more savings than Stack's contract can do.

mffl_14 wrote:You say they want a youth development, I get that but you still need vetrans and you get that in Stack (Jones is just a throw in) and Howard is still a pretty young guy as well and would totally help out Portland. Baylees, Roy, Howard, Aldridge, Oden some how I dont see Portland not liking that line up, I dont care how much Howard's been smoking !

Agree with this section, but even more so with a win yesterday Mavs. Oh, and the fact that Howard is like 5 years older than any of their core players (and some being traded away).

mffl_14 wrote:And finally you say Channing Frye is a waste of a roster spot, you could pretty much say the same considering the mins he'll get in Portland with Oden, Aldridge, and Pryzbilla, not to mention last season when Dirk went down yes we had Bass but then what ? Juwan Howard & Malik Allen if that's what you prefer than your crazier than what I thought. On top of all of that Frye would be an expiring so it's not like the Mavs would be tied down with him.

Agree here too, but the point I am still saying, is that you want your 5 best players on the court, not a few of your best players with 1 or 2 watered down talent while the rest of the talent is sitting on the bench. Our lineup IS.....repeat.....IS better with Howard in their than anything coming back in this trade.

I would agree Howard is the best talent in that scenario, but acting like Outlaw is a scrub is not correct either. I'm just trying to come up with ways where this team can do something in the future because they are headed for a bounce in the first round at this point. I hope that doesn't happen but it's just what seems to be reality.

I dont agree with Stack trying to get into a fight all time, I give you maybe the Jazz but at the same time Stack has also been one of the guys as Mavs fans and anylsts say who has been that tough minded get in your face player this team has needed he just doesnt have the talent anymore to go along with it. I just dont think that Howard is really worth as much as people think he is around here. I'm not saying he sucks or just get anything you can for him but his value isn't that high from everything I read and hear. I just dont think he has it between the ears to be the kind of player we need from that position specifically in crunch time. Maybe he turns it around this year and totally proves me wrong would love nothing more !

we should sign and trade darius miles to portland for some good youth. they will be forced to accept that trade cause if not we will be playing miles 10 games and wreck their cap space.

So if Miles plays, that destroys their cap space from the "medical retirement"?

Interesting.