Bulls fan with a proposal...

[League Circles]

Please don't be upset, but I think this would work, but please read to the end to see why:

Dirk
Diop
Terry

for

Kirk Hinrich
Drew Gooden
Joakim Noah
Larry Hughes
2009 and 2011 unprotected first round picks

Yes you give up the best player of course but you gain a massive advantage over every team in the league for 2010. IMO it is a fact that Dallas is the most desireable NBA franchise to play for, due to Cuban and the weather. If you have a great owner/GM and great weather, most of your work is done for you in attracting great players.

If you do this deal, you get the two most attractive supporting players for the Lebrons of the world in 2010 (Kirk and Noah). Dirk will be 32 or 33 by then, and will likely have continued to prove both his excellence and his inability to take a team all the way. I don't think Lebron/Bosh will want to have an older player as their second fiddle. Terry's contract will be wiped off the books for 2010, as will Diops'. I like both players, especially Diop, but frankly Noah will probably be better than Diop for the duration of Diop's contract. With this deal, you can sign BOTH Lebron AND Bosh or Amare (or whoever) plus another lesser FA to compliment them. So while now you would have:

C: Noah, Dampier
PF: Gooden, Bass
SF: Howard, Stack
SG: Kirk, Stack, Hughes
PG: Kidd, Kirk

In 2010 you'd have:

C: Noah
PF: Amare or Bosh
SF: Howard
SG: Lebron
PG: Hinrich

To fill out the bench - a lesser FA (MLE type), our two picks, and let's say we throw in Aaron Gray as another big. That could be the best team of all time for years to come, no joke.

I wouldn't presume you could sign those guys if it weren't for Cuban, no dead salary weight, and the opportunity to play with Howard, Noah, and Kirk.

Thoughts?

[JES12]

IBTL

Not even close dude!

FYI, we are not trading Dirk. Not even looking at doing it this year and if we do it next off season, we would expect a Kevin Garnett type package...

a) Key piece that you could build around like Al Jefferson which your trade does not have and a sgooting PG like Hinrich does not even come close. And the difference btwn Hinrich and Terry certainly does not even warrant Howard or Diop...much less Dirk!!
b) players with some potential (Green & Gomes) which is like your Noah
c) Expiring (Ratliff) - will be Hughes next offseason, but if you are trying to make the deal now, you don't have this piece either
d) Low draft pick (your 2009 pick) and a high pick (which you don't have)
d) No more value, especially youthful value, from us: meaning no Diop and if the key piece is Dirk, no Terry without added value coming back.

[League Circles]

IBTL

Not even close dude!

Certainly talent wise we run off with it. However, I would think that Dallas is the kind of franchise that doesn't want to settle for beign a good team with no chance for greatness. I previously thought Lebron might come there as it is, but frankly, I just don't think he'll sign the biggest deal fo his career to play with a 32 y.o. Dirk, a 35 y.o. Terry, a 30 y.o. Howard, and an almost 30 Diop. It's a great talent compliment for him IN 2010, but beyond that he'd really be stuck. Thsi gives you a chance to get a lot younger and a better attraction to MULTIPLE superstars SIMULTANEOUSLY in 2010.

You can't possibly think you have a good shot at a title with the current aging crew, do you? I mean you don't have a single meaningful player on the team who can be expected to improve due to age.

[JES12]

Lebron is not going to sign here period. Reguardless of who is on our team. New Jersey, Europe and remaining with the Cavs are the three highest propabilities.

BTW, if we did sign Lebron in 2010, Terry would only be 32 with his 33rd birthday around the corner. Diop 28.

And we have a much greater chance at a title than the Bulls do. Don't even know why you opened up that can of worms.

[League Circles]

IBTL

Not even close dude!

FYI, we are not trading Dirk. Not even looking at doing it this year and if we do it next off season, we would expect a Kevin Garnett type package...

a) Key piece that you could build around like Al Jefferson which your trade does not have and a sgooting PG like Hinrich does not even come close. And the difference btwn Hinrich and Terry certainly does not even warrant Howard or Diop...much less Dirk!!
b) players with some potential (Green & Gomes) which is like your Noah
c) Expiring (Ratliff) - will be Hughes next offseason, but if you are trying to make the deal now, you don't have this piece either
d) Low draft pick (your 2009 pick) and a high pick (which you don't have)
d) No more value, especially youthful value, from us: meaning no Diop and if the key piece is Dirk, no Terry without added value coming back.

But why would you expect a KG type package when Dirk has never been as good as KG. I mean I love Dirk but he's simply not as good as KG, Kober and Duncan, and never has been. He's in the next tier of stars.

But further:
a. Al Jefferson is light years behind Lebron, and also behind Bosh or Amare
b. Noah has MUCH more potential and value than Green or Gomes. Swing men are a dime a dozen. 7 foot athletic centers who are great competitors, despite obvious offensive skill deficiencies, are rare and much more valuable.
c. Why do you need an expiring if you don't have a cap problem? Gooden expires after this year anyway and like you said Hughes does before it matters in 2010.
d. Our draft picks are unknown but likely to be mid first or higher for 2009 and lower first for 2011 IMO, and you can also have 2013 BTW
e. Diop isn't needed much with Noah, and Terry will be 35 when you next have a great shot at a title. As you indicate, Kirk is better than Terry, and besides, this is irrelevant.

The trade is:
Diop
Dirk
possible 2010 FA if none of them think your team is too old

for

Lebron
Bosh
Kirk
Noah
3 first round picks

[League Circles]

Why would Lebron sign with a NJ team that hasn't one good player when he could play with a title-ready crew in Dallas for the best owner in sports???????? I know I've heard the speculation, but it has only to do with NY hype, Jay-Z, and no thought given to basketball realities.

Also I'm not really interested in discussing Bulls vs. Dallas. Dallas is obviously a better team now with obviously a bleaker known future (unknown future could be great as I'm indicating - heck I said they're he best franchise to play for in the NBA!).

[League Circles]

I don;t think there's a chance Lebron goes to Europe despite casual comments by NBA entertainers nor will he stay in Cleveland to rot with what will be a horrible roster.

[JES12]

IBTL

Not even close dude!

FYI, we are not trading Dirk. Not even looking at doing it this year and if we do it next off season, we would expect a Kevin Garnett type package...

a) Key piece that you could build around like Al Jefferson which your trade does not have and a sgooting PG like Hinrich does not even come close. And the difference btwn Hinrich and Terry certainly does not even warrant Howard or Diop...much less Dirk!!
b) players with some potential (Green & Gomes) which is like your Noah
c) Expiring (Ratliff) - will be Hughes next offseason, but if you are trying to make the deal now, you don't have this piece either
d) Low draft pick (your 2009 pick) and a high pick (which you don't have)
d) No more value, especially youthful value, from us: meaning no Diop and if the key piece is Dirk, no Terry without added value coming back.

But why would you expect a KG type package when Dirk has never been as good as KG. I mean I love Dirk but he's simply not as good as KG, Kober and Duncan, and never has been. He's in the next tier of stars.

But further:
a. Al Jefferson is light years behind Lebron, and also behind Bosh or Amare
b. Noah has MUCH more potential and value than Green or Gomes. Swing men are a dime a dozen. 7 foot athletic centers who are great competitors, despite obvious offensive skill deficiencies, are rare and much more valuable.
c. Why do you need an expiring if you don't have a cap problem? Gooden expires after this year anyway and like you said Hughes does before it matters in 2010.
d. Our draft picks are unknown but likely to be mid first or higher for 2009 and lower first for 2011 IMO, and you can also have 2013 BTW
e. Diop isn't needed much with Noah, and Terry will be 35 when you next have a great shot at a title. As you indicate, Kirk is better than Terry, and besides, this is irrelevant.

The trade is:
Diop
Dirk
possible 2010 FA if none of them think your team is too old

for

Lebron
Bosh
Kirk
Noah
3 first round picks

1st of all, Dirk IS in the same catagory as Garnett and Kobe...especially since he has just as many all-star appearences, all-NBA team and MVP awards as they do. In addition, both teams tried getting Dirk from us with those players and FAILED because WE would not do the trade.

Second of all, you are not tradeing us Lebron. We already went over that. Why is is so hard for you to understand that?

Third, Noah has the potential od Drew Gooden. He is NOT a kep component of this trade.

Fourth, Gooden is irrelivent because we are not trading Dirk this season.

Fifth: Your draft picks would be low because Dirk would rip the east up just as much as Garnett did last year.

[League Circles]

I guess is you don't think you have a **** at Lebron this would rightly make no sense to you, I just disagree on that. I think you have arguably the very best chance, and if you do this deal I'd think Lebron and either Amare/Bosh would sign here together with each a max deal at 80% likelihood. But don't forget, there's also MANY other ELITE FA's that season.

[JES12]

Why would Lebron sign with a NJ team that hasn't one good player when he could play with a title-ready crew in Dallas for the best owner in sports???????? I know I've heard the speculation, but it has only to do with NY hype, Jay-Z, and no thought given to basketball realities.

Lebron's interest in Dallas centered around Harris.

[JES12]

But don't forget, there's also MANY other ELITE FA's that season.

And all we need to do to target them is to not sign multi-year deals. The only guaranteed contracts that year are Terry and Diop. Add Dirk and a re-signed Bass and we would be in a good position for FA around the same age or slightly younger. Howard has a team option which means we can sign 1 FA near max and the 2nd FA we have the option of finding out if the are an upgrade to Howard.

We don't need to trade our franchise player to sign these players. And if we want to target players more players that year, we should focus on trading Terry (not even Diop) for either a younger player or an expiring and a pick.

[League Circles]

1st of all, Dirk IS in the same catagory as Garnett and Kobe...especially since he has just as many all-star appearences, all-NBA team and MVP awards as they do. In addition, both teams tried getting Dirk from us with those players and FAILED because WE would not do the trade.

Second of all, you are not tradeing us Lebron. We already went over that. Why is is so hard for you to understand that?

Third, Noah has the potential od Drew Gooden. He is NOT a kep component of this trade.

Fourth, Gooden is irrelivent because we are not trading Dirk this season.

Fifth: Your draft picks would be low because Dirk would rip the east up just as much as Garnett did last year.

I'm sorry you feel that Dirk is in the same category as Kobe, KG and Duncan. Most outside of Dallas would disagree with that IMO. And certainly you have no evidence that LA tried to trade Kobe for Dirk? And although you may have no evidence, of course Minn would try to get Dirk for KG. KG was going to walk in a year. All that says is that Dirk is better than Jefferson basically, which I'd agree with.

Noah is already as good as either of your Cs (no offense I love Diop) after his first year. Drew Gooden is good player in this league. I don't necessarily disagree about the picks, they are sweetener.

IMO Dirk is a great player but he's in the group with these guys now IMO:

Amare
Bosh
Boozer
Jefferson
Brand

[JES12]

Dirk is hands down better than Amare who cannot lead a team without a great PG. Dirk is also hands down better than the shorter, offense only player, Boozer. Still light years in front of Jefferson, though that may change in the upcoming years. Brand is much shorter coming off an injury and even when healthy, could not lead his team. Bosh is the closest, but Bosh is much softer than Dirk who has a stereotype of being soft.

[League Circles]

But don't forget, there's also MANY other ELITE FA's that season.

And all we need to do to target them is to not sign multi-year deals. The only guaranteed contracts that year are Terry and Diop. Add Dirk and a re-signed Bass and we would be in a good position for FA around the same age or slightly younger. Howard has a team option which means we can sign 1 FA near max and the 2nd FA we have the option of finding out if the are an upgrade to Howard.

We don't need to trade our franchise player to sign these players.

You're right about your contract status, but if you add Dirk and resign Bass you can only sign one MAX deal player (which it certainly will take to sign them), adn I would argue that elite players will not sign to play with an aging cast of players when there will be younger, better alternatives all aroudn the league.

BTW who is Harris?

j/k I'm a Badger so I'm a fan of his but he's one of the most overrated players in the league (too bad you can another one in return for him in Kidd) and the thought to me that Lebron would base his career on a marginal starter is laughable.

If you do this deal he can play with a superstar FA big man of his choosing, a solid defensive, winning C in Noah, a versatile former all-star SF in Howard (*former AS by 2010), a perfect comlplimentary guard in Kirk, the best owner in sports, and great weather.

[JES12]

You, seriously, are WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY over-rating Noah.

On that note, I'm done here with saying, your offer is not even close.

You want Dirk, you need to offer a package of Rose, Hughes + picks. Your deal is laughable.

[League Circles]

Dirk is hands down better than Amare who cannot lead a team without a great PG. Dirk is also hands down better than the shorter, offense only player, Boozer. Still light years in front of Jefferson, though that may change in the upcoming years. Brand is much shorter coming off an injury and even when healthy, could not lead his team. Bosh is the closest, but Bosh is much softer than Dirk who has a stereotype of being soft.

You know I guess I'd agree mostly, Dirk is (right now, at least) a little better than Amare only because Amare plays no D (althogu he has the physical tools to and often great players with the physical tools all of a sudden start playing great D with the right coaching), and is better than Boozer and Brand. I do think Bosh is actually better than Amare slightly and do not think he's a osft as stated. Yeah Jefferson's behind but certainly Dirk is simply not nearly the player that Duncan, Kobe, adn KG have been. Especially Duncan and Kobe. Come on.

[dirkforpres]

Awful trade. Chicagos entire roster isnt even worth what we give up in this trade.

[TsunamiZC]

Dirk is hands down better than Amare who cannot lead a team without a great PG. Dirk is also hands down better than the shorter, offense only player, Boozer. Still light years in front of Jefferson, though that may change in the upcoming years. Brand is much shorter coming off an injury and even when healthy, could not lead his team. Bosh is the closest, but Bosh is much softer than Dirk who has a stereotype of being soft.

You know I guess I'd agree mostly, Dirk is (right now, at least) a little better than Amare only because Amare plays no D (althogu he has the physical tools to and often great players with the physical tools all of a sudden start playing great D with the right coaching), and is better than Boozer and Brand. I do think Bosh is actually better than Amare slightly and do not think he's a osft as stated. Yeah Jefferson's behind but certainly Dirk is simply not nearly the player that Duncan, Kobe, adn KG have been. Especially Duncan and Kobe. Come on.

Dirk not better than Duncan...Kobe. Agreed

But why are we mentioning KG ? Only untill last year Dirk and KG were pretty much equals, KG plays more defense, but scores less, Dirk scores more and plays less defense, both are great rebounders, both are not vocal leaders, both are more sucessful when not always the 1st option.

BTW I know KG likes to show out and chest pump, scream like a lunatic after put backs/dunks...but he is no where near a leader outside of that, which has always been a critisism of Dirk but often ignored in KG.

KG is not even as good to carry TD or Kobe's gym bags at this point.

[JES12]

For the record, I never said Dirk was in the same catagory as Duncan. I said he was in the same catagory as Kobe and Garnett. For their position, Kobe > Dirk, but all things concidered, Dirk = Kobe.

[JES12]

I'm sorry you feel that Dirk is in the same category as Kobe, KG and Duncan. Most outside of Dallas would disagree with that IMO. And certainly you have no evidence that LA tried to trade Kobe for Dirk? And although you may have no evidence, of course Minn would try to get Dirk for KG.

First of all, why did you throw in Duncan here? He was not in the discussion and now you are putting words in my mouth.

Second, There was tons of evidense and articles both at the time and resurfaced "rumors" this past off-season on BOTH Kobe AND Garnett proposals that we dismissed because we were not trading Dirk for the likes of Kobe or Garnett. Many of those same articles stated we deecline trades of Harris + Howard for them as well. One whole day was completley surrnounded by a possible Howard + Terry for Kobe trade (the day Kobe cleaned out his locker), but Mitch held out because he wanted Dirk OR Howard + Harris.

Where were you, hibernating or something?