Trade idea

[Captain_Obvious]

Let me first state that i was always under the impression that Dampier and Diop are both capable of playing the C spot and holding their own there. My goal is to get an inside scorer on the Mavs though and i think that Damp and Diop have zero offense that cripples the effect Kidd can have on this team. I think the center "hole" on offense is bigger than the potential we have accumulated at the SG spot.

So i chipped through all the teams in search for a scoring center and two possibilities came up to me: Either we go after a big man well past his prime but still able to contribute like Brad Miller from Sarcramento, which probably costs us Bass, or go after a big name that will for sure make an impact but will also take a lot to get via trade.

So here's the idea:

Dallas outgoing:
Josh Howard (value raised), Dampier (average strong center) and Stackhouse (expiring, vet)

Phoenix outgoing:
Shaq (2 years left (expires the year we have our first rounder again)), Diaw (expensive gamble)

Reasoning:
Shaq and Amare really never worked out, Dampier next to Amare will have the same output. Josh is a huge upgrade over what they have there now (Barnes), he can create for himself. Plus they get rid of Diaw's contract.
Dallas does it to get the inside presence they always lacked. They take on Diaw to have at least one decent replacement after Josh is gone. Of course this is also a gamble because we must hope that Green, Wright and/or Williams break out this season.

Dallas lineup:
Shaq / Diop / Bass
Dirk / Bass / Singleton
Diaw / Williams / Green
Wright / Green / Terry
Kidd / Terry / Barea

[JES12]

Wait, is this a Mavs fan posting this?

Howard > Shaq 2 years
Howard >> Shaq last year
Howard >>> Shaq this year

And no way to we absorb that bad contract to downgrade Howard. Kidd and Shaq on the same team is out right scary...as in to Mav fans if they are both on the Mavs. I mean, if rebuilding is the plan, I don't see why 1) Diaw is coming and 2) Terry is not leaving for an expiring contract.

[Teffer10]

I"d rather go after Miller because it wouldn't cost us as much.
However, our biggest hole to fill right now is SG. That has to be addressed immediately.

[Darren]

Horrible once I see Josh Howard's name evolved.

[chrisjacob]

WHAATT???!!!shaq and kidd and dirk and stackhouse and terry!! that team could win!!
WINNING THE OLDEST TEAM IN THE NBA !!!!atleast we have an award for that!!

are you thinking??shaq and diaw for howard damp and stack!!i never wanna see that come maybe

AMARE and Barnes for HOWARD DAMP and stack.....hows that???LOLS

[italy_23]

miller could be had for less. he expires in 10-11 though.
is kaman attainable? I dont think so but maybe someone can come up with something.
we should really adress the weakness at the 2. wait for a couple of weeks and see if wright steps up (dont think so) or if green makes an impact (maybe). if not, make a package for someone like azubuike, maybe salmons.

[Captain_Obvious]

I simply disagree that Shaq can be had for less or wouldnt help us tremendously.

This is a jumpshooting team as many have stated in the past, a player like Shaq, neither Miller and sure not Kaman(overrated) can give us inside presence like Shaq is still able to (and always will probably).

Yes, giving up Howard is tough. But we wont win anything with him, he simply doesnt show up when it matters. It has been proven over and over and over again.

I just looked over it and Diaw doesnt really have to be in it. Just Shaq for Howard and Damp.
Then Stack for Nocioni.

That would be a heck of a big three: Dirk, Shaq, and Kidd. All three have a history to make players around them better, if that doesnt help players like Nocioni (i like him), Wright, Wiliams, or even Green to have enough room to operate, i dont know what would help.

[Darren]

For Shaq, I won't part with Josh Howard regardless.

[dirkforpres]

Wow! What a terrible trade. Shaq can barely limp down the court now, even if he doesnt want admit it. They better throw in Barbosa to consider it.

[italy_23]

with barbs I'd do it

[Xenopathic Investigator]

Wait, is this a Mavs fan posting this?

Howard > Shaq 2 years
Howard >> Shaq last year
Howard >>> Shaq this year

And no way to we absorb that bad contract to downgrade Howard. Kidd and Shaq on the same team is out right scary...as in to Mav fans if they are both on the Mavs. I mean, if rebuilding is the plan, I don't see why 1) Diaw is coming and 2) Terry is not leaving for an expiring contract.

eh....no?

There is no way they trade a dominant big man(well not in just scoring anymore) for howard.

[Captain_Obvious]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=848080

[Xenopathic Investigator]

Why? They are not going to trade a big for a small.Not when they spent so much to get him. The 2nd trade is more plausible.

[Captain_Obvious]

They also get Dampier who is a big defensive center. They get a replacement for Shaq.

[JES12]

LOL....did someome say Shaq is a "dominant big man"? TV must not be available everywhere the internet is. Shaq sucks!!!!!!!

That siad, I'd concider a Snaq + Bell + Barbosa for Howard + Stack + Dampier trade. I draw the line of adding contracts past 2010 that are not good contracts (Nocioni).

[mffl_14]

While I'll agree I wouldn't go for that trade if we are giving up Howard but if we get Barbosa I think I would go for that. I still think Howard is a first half player, I do agree with Captian that we do need a scoring prescence down low and say what you want about Shaq but he can still do that. An inside out game with Shaq and Dirk has always been an interest of mine even with Shaq's decline. Shaq gets way underated in here and Howard gets way over rated. While I'll agree that particular trade doesn't fit I wouldn't say it's totally absurd. Aside from Jordan you can have the greatest SG in the world but look at the past years winners most of them have a scoring big man down low. If we can swing Barbosa in that deal im all in. If nothing else with Kidd & Shaq coming of the books shortly there after, we are left with I believe a lot of cap space and our draft picks back.

[itsgotime]

While I'll agree I wouldn't go for that trade if we are giving up Howard but if we get Barbosa I think I would go for that. I still think Howard is a first half player, I do agree with Captian that we do need a scoring prescence down low and say what you want about Shaq but he can still do that. An inside out game with Shaq and Dirk has always been an interest of mine even with Shaq's decline. Shaq gets way underated in here and Howard gets way over rated. While I'll agree that particular trade doesn't fit I wouldn't say it's totally absurd. Aside from Jordan you can have the greatest SG in the world but look at the past years winners most of them have a scoring big man down low. If we can swing Barbosa in that deal im all in. If nothing else with Kidd & Shaq coming of the books shortly there after, we are left with I believe a lot of cap space and our draft picks back.

+1

[JES12]

Variations of a Shaq trade I would sleep on and/or do.....

1) Howard + Dampier + Stack..............Shaq + Barbosa + Bell...........Terry/Barbosa $$$$
2) Howard + Dampier + Terry..............Shaq + Barbosa + Bell...........I'd do this one
3) Howard + Dampier + Stack..............Shaq + Barbosa + Hill...........Terry/Barbosa $$$$
4) Howard + Dampier + Terry..............Shaq + Barbosa + Hill...........I'd do this one
5) Howard + Dampier + Stack + Barea....Shaq + Barbosa + Bell + Hill....Terry/Barbosa $$$$
6) Howard + Dampier + Terry + Barea....Shaq + Barbosa + Bell + Hill....I'd do this one
7) Dampier + Stack..........................Shaq.............................Low risk; $18.6 mil more
8) Dampier + Terry..........................Shaq.............................Backup PG?
9) #3 and 4 with Green or Wright added to or in in lieu of Barea

At very minimum, Hill should be coming back and Diaw should be left in Phoenix in the trade from the OP.

notes:
1) Hill and Stack don't like each other at all.
2) Hill signed in Phoenix to play with Shaq.
3) Howard's flexability of keeping him 2010 or renouncing him for a better player; Barbosa has no flexability...meaning I'd almost have to have Terry leave if Barbosa is coming.
4) Dirk-Barbosa-Terry-Diop after Shaq expires does not allow us much free agent siging ability in 2010 as implied by previous posts.
5) I'd want to keep Diop and trade Dampier for sure if the center we get back is 36 years old.

[mffl_14]

How did Hill sign in Phoenix to play with Shaq when Hill had already signed there before the Shaq trade ever went down ? I realize it's irrelavent but just wanted it to be known. I think we all agree bringing Shaq in is fine as long as it's not just for Howard or not just getting Shaq if you are going to trade Howard.

[JES12]

Wow....a complete falacy mffl_14. Maybe it was not opting out that I heard or something to that effect. But I remeber hearing that Hill "wanted to play with Shaq and that's why is is in Phoenix." I heard that just a few weeks ago and It stuck in my head because I never knew they were buddy-buddy.

I'm trying to see if I can find what made me think that, but so far, this is the only thing I could find:
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports ... in-bu.html

Grant Hill once told me that he and Shaq always talk about going into business together once their NBA careers come to a close.

But first, the two former Magic men are apparently going to do some business on the floor, with O'Neal heading from Miami to Phoenix to join Hill. Do they have one good body part between them?

I have to figure that Grant had something to do with this deal, convincing the Suns that the Diesel still has something left in the tank.