REBUILD, i can sense that Dirk will be gone soon

GermanFan120 · Post #1 » by **GermanFan120** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:16 am

very disappointed loss... this is the darkest moment in Dirk's era

As a huge Dirk fan, i say Mavs needs to rebuild

also, i feel sorry for Cuban's money

ppp000 · Post #2 » by **ppp000** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:23 am

The FO built a team of jumpshooters around Dirk. Add to that, two centers with ZERO offensive game.

GermanFan120 · Post #3 » by **GermanFan120** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:23 am

Send Dirk to the Pistons

JES12 · Post #4 » by **JES12** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:26 am

Trading Dirk is way over-reacting. Unless we can get a Deron Williams type player (some proven young guy) trading Dirk solves nothing.

mffl_14 · Post #5 » by **mffl_14** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:43 am

I agree with JES that trading Dirk at this point is way to pre mature. But I have to admit looking at this team tonight was the first night I have ever entertained that thought and that is really sad. Dirk will end up being the next KG he'll go off to a team that has a couple other superstars win it all and we will be stuck rebuilding because I cant possibly see us getting a package like Minnesota got and they still really suck ! Bennet Salvatorre is the devil ! At least we could have had one championship !

Post #6 » by **DDansby123** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:51 am

^ How in the world is trading Dirk premature? Are some people out there still actually under the assumption that we can build a team around Dirk that could win a championship in the next few years? Dirk's 30 and surrounded by a team that not only isn't very good but doesn't have many prospects for improvement. It's not Dirk's fault, and trading him isn't a punishment...it's doing him a favor.

JES12 · Post #7 » by **JES12** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:56 am

The point I was making that there is nothing on Detroit's roster worth trading Dirk for.

ppp000 · Post #8 » by **ppp000** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:56 am

DDansby123 wrote:^ How in the world is trading Dirk premature? Are some people out there still actually under the assumption that we can build a team around Dirk that could win a championship in the next few years? Dirk's 30 and surrounded by a team that not only isn't very good but doesn't have many prospects for improvement. It's not Dirk's fault, and trading him isn't a punishment...it's doing him a favor.

I agree.

How long is the FO going to keep stringing to the belief that this roster can get it done. Didn't Mark Cuban say the worst thing is to be stuck as a mediocre team with no prospects and little chance of winning.

well Cuban, that's exactly what the team is now and has been for awhile now.

mffl_14 · Post #9 » by **mffl_14** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:57 am

DDansby123 wrote:^ How in the world is trading Dirk premature? Are some people out there still actually under the assumption that we can build a team around Dirk that could win a championship in the next few years? Dirk's 30 and surrounded by a team that not only isn't very good but doesn't have many prospects for improvement. It's not Dirk's fault, and trading him isn't a punishment...it's doing him a favor.

I like Dirk but I dont give a crap about doing him any favor's when he goes I'm still a Mavs fan and the bottom line is if your not going to get what he is worth than I would rather watch him here than anywhere else.

Post #10 » by **DDansby123** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 5:08 am

mffl_14 wrote:I like Dirk but I dont give a crap about doing him any favor's when he goes I'm still a Mavs fan and the bottom line is if your not going to get what he is worth than I would rather watch him here than anywhere else.

How do you know we won't get full value? And is that "full value" according to Mavs fans or to the rest of the league?

But let's say we don't get full value (whatever that is). Is that so terrible? I mean, the only judge of a trade (unless you actually go through with it) is a paper comparison, and those often turn out to be faulty. Besides, what exactly do we have to lose at this point?

ppp000 · Post #11 » by **ppp000** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 5:12 am

I'm a Mavs fan first, but I want to see Dirk get a ring. Just like I was happy for Finley when he got one.

That aside, you're usually not going to get equal value for a franchise player, especially when you're the Mavs FO>

But there's no use in wasting everyone's time with this type of team.

GermanFan120 · Post #12 » by **GermanFan120** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 5:31 am

DDansby123 wrote:^ How in the world is trading Dirk premature? Are some people out there still actually under the assumption that we can build a team around Dirk that could win a championship in the next few years? Dirk's 30 and surrounded by a team that not only isn't very good but doesn't have many prospects for improvement. It's not Dirk's fault, and trading him isn't a punishment...it's doing him a favor.

exactly what i was trying to say, thank you!

dirkforpres · Post #13 » by **dirkforpres** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 6:19 am

Dirk will never be traded from the Mavs. Mark Cuban will trade every other player (Josh, Kidd, Terry, etc.) before Dirk. Im not ready to throw the towel in on the season yet though... Keep in mind that we posted 67 wins after going 0-4 2 years ago. The trade deadline will be interesting though if things dont improve. Marbury talks should at least be in discussion. I cant take too much more of JJB being our primary PG backup

ppp000 · Post #14 » by **ppp000** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 6:31 am

dirkforpres wrote:Dirk will never be traded from the Mavs. Mark Cuban will trade every other player (Josh, Kidd, Terry, etc.) before Dirk. Im not ready to throw the towel in on the season yet though... Keep in mind that we posted 67 wins after going 0-4 2 years ago. The trade deadline will be interesting though if things dont improve. Marbury talks should at least be in discussion. I cant take too much more of JJB being our primary PG backup

I doubt Dirk will be willing to go through another rebuilding process around him. Cuban may not want to trade him, but Dirk could push for one.

Also 67 wins still equaled a first round loss in the playoffs.

DIRKtheGREAT · Post #15 » by **DIRKtheGREAT** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 6:34 am

WOW!!!!!!!!

Look at you guys...i know the loss was a bad one and i was mad at how barea was in and SUCKED and terry looked worse than a D-leaguer but how are you going to say we need to trade dirk..thats the stupidest topic ive seen, EVER. Dirk is a top 5 talent in the WORLD! we lost to cleaveland on a off night and i understand we've looked bad versus o.k teams but WE ONLY PLAYED 3 OF OUR 82 GAMES OF THE REGULAR SEASON. the lakers were around .500 when they got gasol for TRASH. what says we wont and cant do the same?? ease up. :oops:

Teffer10 · Post #16 » by **Teffer10** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 6:40 am

mffl_14 wrote:I like Dirk but I dont give a crap about doing him any favor's when he goes I'm still a Mavs fan and the bottom line is if your not going to get what he is worth than I would rather watch him here than anywhere else.

Dirk's value will only decrease as time passes. I'm a Dirk fan but even more of a Mavs fan. I'd rather start on a new path toward a championship than watch Dirk rack up huge numbers on a team that will struggle to make the playoffs over the next 5 years.

The risk of trading Dirk for less value is much less than the risk of trying to win a championship with him now. At least we would have some hope. There is absolutely no hope for this squad...that should be obvious to everyone by now.

I'm sorry, but I can't get excited about beating up on the Clippers, Wolves, and Grizzlies of the league while the power houses of the west (and now east) clobber us to a state of embarrassment.

Teffer10 · Post #17 » by **Teffer10** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 6:54 am

DIRKtheGREAT wrote:WOW!!!!!!!!

Look at you guys...i know the loss was a bad one and i was mad at how barea was in and SUCKED and terry looked worse than a D-leaguer but how are you going to say we need to trade dirk..thats the stupidest topic ive seen, EVER. Dirk is a top 5 talent in the WORLD! we lost to cleaveland on a off night and i understand we've looked bad versus o.k teams but WE ONLY PLAYED 3 OF OUR 82 GAMES OF THE REGULAR SEASON. the lakers were around .500 when they got gasol for TRASH. what says we wont and cant do the same?? ease up.

Look, I know Dirk is great but MJ in his prime wouldn't even be able to lead this squad to a championship.

Sorry to disagree, but Dirk's value is as high as it will ever be so trading him could be a great move.
It certainly isn't going to hurt anything at this point.

You have to take a good look at the chemistry of this team to see that it has no chance at any type of championship. And even if we could get a steal like Gasol, it still wouldn't be enough.

Certainly we don't want to give him away but it is definitely time to start thinking about going a different direction and Dirk is the only trade piece that we have to begin the rebuilding process.
Besides, keeping him would only prolong the agony.

Pointguard01 · Post #18 » by **Pointguard01** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 8:50 am

dirkforpres wrote:Dirk will never be traded from the Mavs. Mark Cuban will trade every other player (Josh, Kidd, Terry, etc.) before Dirk. Im not ready to throw the towel in on the season yet though... Keep in mind that we posted 67 wins after going 0-4 2 years ago. The trade deadline will be interesting though if things dont improve. Marbury talks should at least be in discussion. I cant take too much more of JJB being our primary PG backup

Backup PG is the least of our worries. Its our top guys that dont play well and end up winning/losing games. Terry & Dirk were awful and no one was particularly good. Dallas is no where near the team the 67-win team was, and the competition in the west is only better. It's been clear we should rebuild for a while, we should capitalize sooner rather than later and have a worse record to get a better pick in the 2009 draft.

The biggest problem with teams is they wait too long to rebuild. Dallas still has plenty of good players team would give up good packages for and the rebuilding process wouldnt have to take 4-5 years. Dirk & Howard both could net good packages of young players and cap space. Throw in Terry with Dirk to get rid of his contract. Let Kidd expire and wait for Damp/Stack contracts to go away the following year when Dallas would want the cap space.

The longer we wait, the worse it will be.

Post #19 » by **DDansby123** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 12:48 pm

If the Mavs wind up below .500 at the midway point, I guarantee Dirk and Josh will get thrown around as trade bait. Cuban probably won't admit their names are out there, but there will be a ton of speculation (and rightfully so). If Bass continues his poor play, I'd imagine that he and Josh would be packaged together in a deal, as those are really our only two (fairly) young guys with decent value.

IMO, playing piss poor is the best thing the Mavs could do right now...force the FO to make drastic changes. Because with a new coach, and a new system, this team will most likely improve throughout the season. But they still won't be good enough to do much in the playoffs, IMO.

Let's say they rebound and get ousted in the second round (a pretty generous suggestion, I'd say). Then what? Well, then they have to make a decision on Jason Kidd, we'll have a pretty low (and fairly useless) draft pick, and Dirk will be a year older. If we're still going for a championship, we have to re-sign Kidd (who's probably been our most consistent player to start the season) and hope like hell we get a great signing with the MLE.

So what exactly will we have accomplished if we find that we truly underachieved last season? Where will be if we manage to win 55 games and a playoff series this year with Kidd, Dirk, and Howard as the main pieces? Still far short of a championship and with an even older core. Again, I ask, what will we have accomplished?

jwa1107 · Post #20 » by **jwa1107** » Tue Nov 4, 2008 2:37 pm

If Harris had not been traded then I would say:
look at what happened with Paul Pierce

BOS gave up all its youth to get two stars to play alongside Pierce
Conventional thinking was that BOS would have to trade Pierce and rebuild
but Ainge worked out deals to get KG and get Ray Ray and win a championship

I think the likelihood of Donnie doing that are very slim - especially without Harris as a trade option
and now that Kidd is here I am not sure that alone he is enough to make that run at a 3headed monster - DAL is still 2 stars away from being able to replicate BOS.

but if you can get a couple of package deals out of Damp, JET, Bass, Stack, Howard to put around Kidd+Dirk from desperate rebuilding teams you might be able to compete for a title. But you'll have to gut this team to do it.

And then you wash away all prospects for a FA in 2010 because you'll have to take on salary to get the deals done. So your options become 1 maybe 2 title runs with Dirk or trade Dirk for high-caliber youth to rebuild around or continue to be blind and say Howard+Dirk+Kidd+noSG is good enough to compete for a title.