At what point do you pull the plug on this Mav team?

Blowitupalready · Post #1 » by **Blowitupalready** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:16 am

Notice that this is a "when" question and not an "if" question. I think the last few playoff performances as well as the last 100 games or so have demonstrated that you can't win a title with Dirk as your best player. Especially when your second or third best players can't get you a bucket in the paint in the 4th quarter.

The team is flawed and we all know that. So when does Cuban look Donnie in the eye and say "Fix this mess". Personally, I think that the Mavs should be the first team to realize that they need to start over so they can start shedding the contracts like Terry's and Damp's while the expiring contracts are still out there to be had. Not every team is building for free agency 2010.

If the Mavs aren't better than .500 by 12/1, I say start chopping everybody but Dirk for picks and expiring deals. We may not get Lebron, but Bosh might be nice to put with Dirk and this year's lottery pick.

Post #2 » by **cmavswin** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:53 am

Not this year I think the FO still thinks this team can win it all and until they get there heads out that is the way it will be.

JES12 · Post #3 » by **JES12** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:22 am

First of all, if you atart rebuilding (not retooling) you start with your aging superstar...meaning Dirk goes fisrt. Then you do everyone else. Trying to build around a 33-34 yo Dirk just will not work.

Second of all, there is no need to trade Dampier unless he is the sweetner in a deal (like a Dampier - Blount swap if Dirk-Beasley is the centerpiece or something to that effect). Trading Damp as the centerpiece would require taking back another over-paid player and possibly a longer deal.

Personally, I do think Mavs need to go one direction or the other. Right now, they seem all win now oriented, but they are not producing. If a major trade to fix our issues does not arise, then we need to start rebuilding.

Post #4 » by **DDansby123** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:10 am

I say immediately, if not sooner.

JD45 · Post #5 » by **JD45** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:42 am

The problem is that unprotected 2010 draft pick they gave New Jersey. They can start rebuilding now, but no pick that year is going to delay the project by a year. If not for the pick, they could start right now.

Post #6 » by **HMFFL** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:44 am

We have our hands tied, unless we want to move Dirk, and I don't see that happening. Being that Jason Kidd is a expiring contract, we should gain some, but I doubt the return is a big enough impact, and it most likely sticks us with a player(s) that expire after next season. However, if we can get draft picks from a Jason Kidd trade I would highly consider it if I'm Donnie. Jason would probably only be willing to go to a handful of teams they probably don't need point guard help. Miami does stick out as a possible destination but don't expect much return value.

It's time for us to be smart with any draft picks we have coming up and for the future. We also need to stop signing average veterans to lengthy contracts and start learning from the mistakes during the past.

Pointguard01 · Post #7 » by **Pointguard01** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:28 am

JD45 wrote:The problem is that unprotected 2010 draft pick they gave New Jersey. They can start rebuilding now, but no pick that year is going to delay the project by a year. If not for the pick, they could start right now.

I know alot of people are really tied up with whole idea that Dallas wont get their 2010 pick, so they dont think Dallas should rebuild, but if you really believe that Dallas has little to no shot winning a championship, then who the hell cares.

We can wait 2 years, try to win & then rebuild after 2010 draft, which would put us 2+ years behind in the whole rebuild mode (plus lose the value of our players with age/ability) or we can suck up our pride, give New Jersey a better pick, and start the process we are know we need. regardless of how we do, New Jersey is still getting the pick, but getting a high draft pick in 2009 + the youngsters we can undoubtedly get with Dirk, Kidd & Howard is all that should matter.

It sucks, but waiting isnt gonna make it any better.

JES12 · Post #8 » by **JES12** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:14 am

Pointguard01 wrote:I know alot of people are really tied up with whole idea that Dallas wont get their 2010 pick, so they dont think Dallas should rebuild, but if you really believe that Dallas has little to no shot winning a championship, then who the hell cares.

We can wait 2 years, try to win & then rebuild after 2010 draft, which would put us 2+ years behind in the whole rebuild mode (plus lose the value of our players with age/ability) or we can suck up our pride, give New Jersey a better pick, and start the process we are know we need. regardless of how we do, New Jersey is still getting the pick, but getting a high draft pick in 2009 + the youngsters we can undoubtedly get with Dirk, Kidd & Howard is all that should matter.

It sucks, but waiting isnt gonna make it any better.

I'd rather have 2 more years of winning seasons and playoff appearences before we go back to a long playoff drought.

And 2 years behind rebuild? Two years behind what? Our next failed team? Are you in such a rush to get to the next failed Mavs? Ten years from now is ten years from now. 2 playoff appearences + 8 year drought is better than a 10 year drought IMHO. Two year now or two year at the end of that ten year? Right now may be closer to the Chip than our next 5 rebuilding phases.

So your answer, is 'I care"!!!!!!!!!

Post #9 » by **DDansby123** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:07 pm

The 2010 pick is GONE; it doesn't matter whether it's the #1 pick or the #30, it's GONE.

So, because it's gone, we should go ahead and languish in mediocrity and shoot for a 20-something pick next year? That's just dumb. I'd rather have a lottery pick and give up a lottery pick than have a 20-something pick and give up a lottery pick. Just common sense here people.

You guys have to understand that our tradeable assets are depreciating. Dirk's not getting any better, nor is Howard, nor is JET or Stack or Damp. Hell, even Bass and Diop (two of our younger core players) seem to have gotten worse. The longer we wait, the worse this rebuild will be, I promise you. I suppose you could hold everybody and trade them as expirings, but that won't get much in return, if anything.

I'm telling you, focus on the 2009 and 2011 picks, and FORGET 2010!

dirtyfilthynasty · Post #10 » by **dirtyfilthynasty** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:15 pm

The answer is two years ago.

Darren · Post #11 » by **Darren** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:26 pm

DDansby123 wrote:The 2010 pick is GONE; it doesn't matter whether it's the #1 pick or the #30, it's GONE.

So, because it's gone, we should go ahead and languish in mediocrity and shoot for a 20-something pick next year? That's just dumb. I'd rather have a lottery pick and give up a lottery pick than have a 20-something pick and give up a lottery pick. Just common sense here people.

You guys have to understand that our tradeable assets are depreciating. Dirk's not getting any better, nor is Howard, nor is JET or Stack or Damp. Hell, even Bass and Diop (two of our younger core players) seem to have gotten worse. The longer we wait, the worse this rebuild will be, I promise you. I suppose you could hold everybody and trade them as expirings, but that won't get much in return, if anything.

I'm telling you, focus on the 2009 and 2011 picks, and FORGET 2010!

Tank it. We'll get our Tim Duncan in BJ Mullens at the end of the season. Then, we'll win one (like SAS did). Without a top-2 pick in 2009, any rebuilding plan doesn't work obviously.

Teffer10 · Post #12 » by **Teffer10** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:04 pm

The plug should have been pulled this past off-season so the longer the FO waits, the more our agony is prolonged.

It is painfully obvious to some of us that the Mavs have absolutely no chance. I'd rather start from scratch by acquiring draft picks, youth potential, and expiring contracts.

Dirk/Wright for Beasley, Marion, Blount
Howard to GS for 2010 #1 +filler
Terry for expirings (any...who gives a crap if it is equal value at this point).
Kidd to Portland for LaFrentz, Outlaw, Blake

The FO needs to make it obvious to FAs like Deron Williams that we are clearing space and in rebuild mode.

I'd rather have a lineup of Williams/Green/Outlaw/Beasley/Diop (plus our 09 and possible 10 lotto draft picks) and Bass in 2012 than be the laughing stock of the NBA and having nothing to show for it with no immediate future.

Captain_Obvious · Post #13 » by **Captain_Obvious** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:38 pm

I believe there is more to the NBA than to win a championship. To me, this era has added to the identity of each Mavs fan. Whether people reference this as an era of failure, success, or whatever, isnt it better this way than being a Bucks fan for example?

There is a whole new generation growing up that recognize Mavs basketball with the likes of Dirk and Kidd, two HoFs. Sure it would be nice to get a nice young prospect for either of them, but that would cost a good portion of what we gained all these years. I dont like the thought of trading away your history.

Chester0 · Post #14 » by **Chester0** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:15 pm

Honestly, i don't even watch us play anymore. its too painful and there is nothing to look for--we know whats going to come each night. I'm ready to rebuild entirely. The only thing that will be painful to me and to the franchise as a whole will be the departure of Dirk. I can't tell you how pissed off at him I was after the Miami series, but the past two years have cemented the reasons why he will go down as my favorite player ever. He has done a lot for this franchise, and the one time he ever let us down doesn't nearly match how our team didn't do anything for him last year, and isn't going to do anything at any point in the future. That being said, we're all (minus the german contingency) mavs fans before dirk fans, so I won't hesitate to discuss potential Dirk tradees. For the length of time that it takes us to get back to playoff contention, I can at least root for whoever Dirk goes to (assuming its not LA, houston, SA, or phoenix...which it wouldn't be).

It is a truly sad time to be a mavs fan right now. Cubes has to see this soon. I have faith in our ability to rebuild the right way, we just have to make it obvious that that is the direction we are going. I will gladly wait 2 or 3 years as long as cap room and solid draft choices are somewhere on the horizon. But I can't stand watching a very mediocre team struggle every night with no prospects at all of getting better. I hate it so much, i don't even watch the games anymore. All this being said, give it til December. If we look the same, thats your sign.

GermanFan120 · Post #15 » by **GermanFan120** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:44 pm

Chester0 wrote:Honestly, i don't even watch us play anymore. its too painful and there is nothing to look for--we know whats going to come each night. I'm ready to rebuild entirely. The only thing that will be painful to me and to the franchise as a whole will be the departure of Dirk. I can't tell you how pissed off at him I was after the Miami series, but the past two years have cemented the reasons why he will go down as my favorite player ever. He has done a lot for this franchise, and the one time he ever let us down doesn't nearly match how our team didn't do anything for him last year, and isn't going to do anything at any point in the future. That being said, we're all (minus the german contingency) mavs fans before dirk fans, so I won't hesitate to discuss potential Dirk tradees. For the length of time that it takes us to get back to playoff contention, I can at least root for whoever Dirk goes to (assuming its not LA, houston, SA, or phoenix...which it wouldn't be).

It is a truly sad time to be a mavs fan right now. Cubes has to see this soon. I have faith in our ability to rebuild the right way, we just have to make it obvious that that is the direction we are going. I will gladly wait 2 or 3 years as long as cap room and solid draft choices are somewhere on the horizon. But I can't stand watching a very mediocre team struggle every night with no prospects at all of getting better. I hate it so much, i don't even watch the games anymore. All this being said, give it til December. If we look the same, thats your sign.

totally agree. send Dirk to the Cavs and start rebuilding!!!

dirkforpres · Post #16 » by **dirkforpres** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:00 pm

Well we are behind Memphis in the standings... Thats reason enough for me to pull the plug. Start trading 2 or even all of the big 3 for some young talent and expirings and just try to rebuild from scratch. Draft picks could go a long way if we can work a deal for those... I like the way the draft looks this year

Teffer10 · Post #17 » by **Teffer10** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:19 pm

dirkforpres wrote:Well we are behind Memphis in the standings... Thats reason enough for me to pull the plug. Start trading 2 or even all of the big 3 for some young talent and expirings and just try to rebuild from scratch. Draft picks could go a long way if we can work a deal for those... I like the way the draft looks this year

The fact we are 2-4 against teams that have a combined record of 15-23 (2-9 for teams we beat) should be reason enough for any half-way intelligent GM/Owner to start looking for a different direction with this team.

Deus · Post #18 » by **Deus** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:31 pm

Mavs aren't going to win with these guys. I'm convinced. Trade everyone now. Start rebuiding for 2010. Don't become Sacramento, who've been mediocre for 3-4 years now. Become Portland, who have rebuilt themselves into a legit contender since Pippen and Sheed left 5-6 years ago. Or how about Boston? Remember the Dirk-Pierce comparisons? Boston trades for Garnett and wins a title, We trade for Jason Kidd. Garnett is 31 and in his prime. Kidd is 35 and on the downslide. Or what about LA? They let Shaq goto Miami but still find a good center in Andrew Bynum. We should do the same. Trade Dirk for picks and find a good center. A center that can actually post up for a change.

Teffer10 · Post #19 » by **Teffer10** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:31 pm

Captain_Obvious wrote:I believe there is more to the NBA than to win a championship. To me, this era has added to the identity of each Mavs fan. Whether people reference this as an era of failure, success, or whatever, isnt it better this way than being a Bucks fan for example?

There is a whole new generation growing up that recognize Mavs basketball with the likes of Dirk and Kidd, two HoFs. Sure it would be nice to get a nice young prospect for either of them, but that would cost a good portion of what we gained all these years. I dont like the thought of trading away your history.

I understand what you are trying to say but it seems to me that most fans are interested in the future more than the past. There is no doubt this franchise was the most successful during the Dirk era but winning a championship is, has been, and always will be the most important goal for the team. If fans enjoy watching individual performances, they will continue to watch Dirk put up huge individual stats due to a lack of a supporting cast.

However, this fan cannot bare to watch this team continue to slowly erode. If we were truely one small achievable piece away I'd want to give it one more shot. Unfortuneately we are either several above average players, or one Kobe/LeBron/KG piece away and we all know acquiring that is fantacy.

Post #20 » by **DDansby123** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:47 pm

^ We have to understand that the current Mavs' legacy is that of failure. I know they accomplished a lot, and it's a bit unfair that we're known for collapsing more than success, but that's the fact. To me, the current culture of the team isn't one we should be hanging on to. Nobody wants to go back to the 11-win-season days, but to rebuild anything correctly, you almost always have to tear it down and start over. That's what we need.