I Love Dirk as much as any mav fan, but..

daoneandonly · Post #1 » by **daoneandonly** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:26 pm

His time here is up. He's the best mav ever, but this team is going nowhere. People talk about the Finals vs. Miami and the GSW series; I don't think that’s where Dirk hurt us the most. The worst thing Dirk did to the franchise was force their hand to trade for Jason Kidd, ultimately the GM and Owner are responsible, but Dirk had a huge hand in that. The failure of this team lies heavily on him because of that. I saw JES write in another post, and while we rarely agree, I agree with what he said in that we need to trade dirk first and then rebuild from there, building around an older dirk just won’t work.

Pointguard01 · Post #2 » by **Pointguard01** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:38 pm

I think we all agree that its time to rebuild & it starts with Dirk, and this has been obviously for some time now. Its all about whether Cuban and Donnie will pull the trigger.

Basketballmania · Post #3 » by **Basketballmania** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:56 pm

around whom should they rebuild then?
howard? bass?
They just have to keep Wright, Green, Bass, Williams and Diop. Woth more experience they all should play very well

raferfenix · Post #4 » by **raferfenix** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:34 am

If you're trading Dirk, how about a deal with the Bucks? How about something like this package (scenario via drew on the Bucks board):

Bucks trade: Ramon Sessions, Michael Redd, Charlie Villanueva, Joe Alexander
Mavs trade: Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Terry

That's a lot for the Bucks to give up as Sessions is looking like stud pg and bucks brass is still high on Alexander's potential despite a rocky start. However, Dirk would be hugely popular (especially given the highly German Milwaukee demographics) and would lead us in our win now mentality. Plus, we desperatley need to get a new arena deal done if the team is to stay in Milwaukee, so even if we have to drop a lot of young talent we're probably willing to take the hit if we think it'll bring us to that.

You guys stock up on young talent while also adding a star SG that might keep your team in the hunt this year (at the least it'd make the team more interesting). Plus, Carlisle had great success with a similar player in Reggie Miller at SG, and Redd was always a favorite of Terry Stotts while he was an assistant and then head coach here. I'd emphasize though that this deal probably becomes about Sessions, as you'd have to view him as a long term team centerpiece to make it worth doing this.

Dropping out from under Terry's salary would be huge for you guys as well, though if this is being discussed i'd be holding out hope that we wouldn't have to take him on (or that we wouldn't have to give up Alexander for that matter too).

So what do you think---is this the kind of Dirk trade that would be made if you guys do decide to rebuild?

daoneandonly · Post #5 » by **daoneandonly** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:37 am

^No Way, I actually just proposed a deal centering around Bogut for Dirk, i think all conversations starts with Bogut if Dirk si included

raferfenix · Post #6 » by **raferfenix** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:47 am

daoneandonly wrote:^No Way, I actually just proposed a deal centering around Bogut for Dirk, i think all conversations starts with Bogut if Dirk si included

I don't think a Bogut for Dirk deal would be out of the question except for the poison pill provision in his contract that makes him almost impossible to trade him at this point.If it is possible the bucks would need a center back, and if you guys took back Gadzuric we may be wlling to take on Dampier for that (though I doubt Terry would be involved then and have no idea how it'd work contractually).

Really don't sleep on Sessions though----he put up some ridiculous numbers to end last season (24 assists in a game) and has been tearing it up this year as well averaging 17, 6, and 3 (while getting crap minutes the first few games too). At this point I might value Sessions more than Drew, but I'm admittedly far on the Sessions optimist side (and there are more and more of us on the Bucks board). I think Bogut will be a near elite defender and rebounder in the coming years, but his offense really hasn't come along at all and he's been horribly prone to inconsistency and playing soft (shaq called him Erika Dampier with a beard today). I bet you guys would prefer to go with a PG on the cheap rather than commit to paying him 12 mill a year while rebuilding at this point even.

JES12 · Post #7 » by **JES12** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:35 am

I've been debating the first move in a rebuild.

I think I would do it in this order:

Josh Howard for Bobby Simmons + Dallas 2010 pick + Nets 2009 pick

then Dirk for young potential (Rose, Beasley, Bynum) or some player other star in the making less than 25 years old.

Maybe attach Terry and Damp to Dirk or trade Terry for expirings.

Kidd for Marbury + 1st

I don't think Milwaukie has the trading poeces we would be looking for in a rebuild. I like Bogut, but i don't think he is the player we should focus on in a rebuild.

dirkforpres · Post #8 » by **dirkforpres** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:47 am

I dont see LA trading Bynum, even for Dirk, especially when they have Gasol. Miami might trade us Beasley, but they might not to avoid chemistry issues between him and Wade. I dont think Chicago would even think of trading Rose either though. I liked the above trade with Dirk and JET for Alexander, Redd, Villanueva, and Sessions though

MAVSGM2015 · Post #9 » by **MAVSGM2015** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:34 am

hi this is my first post....
im a big Dirk fan but its time for us to rebuild... i say we trade Dirk for Bynum, Odom and cash...
what do u guys think.... i have alot of other trade ideas that work on ESPN Trade Machine

Baddy Chuck · Post #10 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:28 am

JES12 wrote:then Dirk for young potential (Rose, Beasley, Bynum) or some player other star in the making less than 25 years old.

Wait, you think Dirk has the value of a Bynum/Rose type player? I think you would be severely disappointed even if Dirk was traded tommorow for the BEST young player you could possibly get for him.

Baddy Chuck · Post #11 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:29 am

MAVSGM2015 wrote:hi this is my first post....
im a big Dirk fan but its time for us to rebuild... i say we trade Dirk for Bynum, Odom and cash...
what do u guys think.... i have alot of other trade ideas that work on ESPN Trade Machine

Rule #1 of realgm - ballboys can not post trade generated on the ESPN Trade Machine.

ppp000 · Post #12 » by **ppp000** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:31 am

I dont think Dirk has that value. I don't see a team giving up Bynum or Rose for him. Just my opinion.

Pointguard01 · Post #13 » by **Pointguard01** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:37 am

If Chicago was close to contending, yea they would trade Rose for Dirk, just like the Celtics decided that they were ready to give up Al Jefferson for KG. But Chicago is far from it and even with Dirk, they wouldnt be contenders, so thats more of the reason why Chicago wouldnt trade Rose for Dirk. As for LA, they are already favorites without Dirk, they have no need to give up Bynum and his potential for Dirk.

Bucks trade: Ramon Sessions, Michael Redd, Charlie Villanueva, Joe Alexander
Mavs trade: Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Terry

This is something I think Dallas might consider, assuming they could move Redd to another team for another young player. I really like what Sessions. Assuming Miami wouldnt do a Beasley swap, I dont know that there are many other teams out there for potential superstars out there.