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NO, its not the Harris/Kidd trade. New Jersey bent us over even worse on this trade.

Dallas trades to NJ:

Chris Gatling
Jim Jackson
George McCloud
Sam Cassell
Eric Montross

NJ trades to Dallas:

Robert Pack
Ed o'Bannon
Khalid Reeves
Shawn Bradley

Do you care to explain why other than the fact that all those players the Mavs traded are headed to the HAll of Fame?

Selected by the Golden State Warriors in the first round (16th pick overall) of the 1991 NBA Draft....Traded by the Warriors with Tim Hardaway to the Miami Heat for Bimbo Coles and Kevin Willis on 2/22/96....Signed as a free agent by the Dallas Mavericks on 7/16/96....Traded by the Mavericks with Sam Cassell, Jim Jackson, George McCloud and Eric Montross to the New Jersey Nets for Shawn Bradley, Ed O'Bannon, Robert Pack and Khalid Reeves on 2/17/97....Traded by the Nets with Sam Cassell to the Milwaukee Bucks in a three-team deal in which the Bucks also received Paul Grant from the Minnesota Timberwolves, the Timberwolves received Brian Evans, a 1999 first-round draft choice and a future first-round draft choice from the Nets and Terrell Brandon from the Bucks, and the Nets received Stephon Marbury, Chris Carr and Bill Curley from the Timberwolves and Eliott Perry frm the Bucks on 3/11/99....Traded by the Bucks with Armen Gilliam to the Orlando Magic for Danny Manning and Dale Ellis on 8/19/99....Traded by the Magic with Tariq Abdul-Wahad and a lottery-protected, future first round draft pick to the Denver Nuggets for Chauncey Billups, Ron Mercer and Johnny Taylor on 2/1/00....Traded by the Nuggets with a second-round draft pick to the Miami Heat for Voshon Lenard and Mark Strickland on 6/27/00....Traded by the Heat with a future first-round draft pick and cash to the Cleveland Cavaliers in a three-team deal in which the Cavaliers also received Gary Grant from the Portland Trail Blazers, the Trail Blazers received Shawn Kemp form the Cavaliers, and the Heat received Brian Grant from the Trail Blazers on 8/30/00....Traded by the Cavaliers to the Heat in a three-team deal in which the Cavaliers received Ricky Davis from the Heat and Brian Skinner from the Toronto Raptors, and the Raptors received Don MacLean and cash from the Heat on 10/26/01.

Gatling does'nt count he has been traded more than any human alive.

Blowitupalready wrote:Do you care to explain why other than the fact that all those players the Mavs traded are headed to the HAll of Fame?

Ok then, I am assuming you a recent, not long time fan and did not follow the Mavs in the 80s & 90s
approx stats-
Chris Gatling was an all star PF/C averaging 19ppg/8 reb as a Mav in only about 27 min

Sam Cassell was Jason Kidd's replacement averaging around 18ppg/ 8 ast for most of his productive career and did not even get a fair chance here

Jim Jackson averaged around 20ppg/5 reb and was a good young talent

George McCloud was good for 18ppg/4 reb

Montross had a Diop-like 4pts/5 reb

The Mavs then built the team around Finley and Bradley. The Mavs could have recieved tons more talent than Shawn Bradley for what they traded away. When the face of your franchise is Shawn Bradley you are in serious trouble. He had maybe 1 or 2 productive years but not near enough to even make up for the loss of Cassell much less Gatling. At least trading away Devin Harris we did recieve a hall of fame point in Kidd. The trade I posted we recieved nothing but spares.

I won't tell you how long I've been a Mavs fan but I will say this:

I was very disappointed when the Mavs traded away Dale Ellis for Al Wood. That actually could be the worst trade in Mav history.

Back to the other trade, Nellie sort of cleaned house and was looking to start over. He was always enamored with Bradley and probably gave up a little much but keeping that group would have got us no closer to winning anything. It might have even hurt our chances of landing Nash and Dirk.

Blowitupalready wrote:I won't tell you how long I've been a Mavs fan but I will say this:

I was very disappointed when the Mavs traded away Dale Ellis for Al Wood. That actually could be the worst trade in Mav history.

Back to the other trade, Nellie sort of cleaned house and was looking to start over. He was always enamored with Bradley and probably gave up a little much but keeping that group would have got us no closer to winning anything. It might have even hurt our chances of landing Nash and Dirk.

You beat me to that reply...Ellis for Wood was by far the worst Maverick trade.
Detlif Schrempf for Herb Williams should rank pretty high as well.

The best was TT for Dirk.

Blowitupalready wrote:I won't tell you how long I've been a Mavs fan but I will say this:

I was very disappointed when the Mavs traded away Dale Ellis for Al Wood. That actually could be the worst trade in Mav history.

Back to the other trade, Nellie sort of cleaned house and was looking to start over. He was always enamored with Bradley and probably gave up a little much but keeping that group would have got us no closer to winning anything. It might have even hurt our chances of landing Nash and Dirk.

Dale Ellis for Al Wood ranks way up there with some of the stupid trades the Mavs have ever done.

And as far as keeping the group we had before the Bradley trade I agree that some house cleaning was in order but to bend over to acquire Bradley of all people is crazy. No telling who we may have recieved with the same package to another team.


This is what the trade brought us...A guy that only played basketball because he was tall

BLKMN22,

I strongly disagree with your statement on Shawn Bradley. I do admit there were times Shawn played soft. But you seem to have forgotten how many shots he altered. He was the best shot blocker in the Mavs' franchise.

So, okay, he got dunked on by guys like Robert Pack. But it wasn't his fault. He was just doing his job challenging shots. Give him some credit.

Well if I remember correctly, Don Nelson thought he would be great in a zone defense. What Don Nelson over looked or did not know at the time of the trade was the defensive three second rule. Bradley would not be allowed just to camp out in the paint like Nelson intended him to. Bradley did alter shots but was not even up to par with Manute Bol in the blocked shot category. He was a below average rebounder for his size. It was almost like he rebounded by accident. He was a great person and family man but he really was not one in love with the game of basketball. More often than not it was extremely frustrating to watch him play.

BLKMN22 wrote: More often than not it was extremely frustrating to watch him play.

That is putting it mildly but at least Shawn could shoot the ball from distance.

Chris Gatling was an all star PF/C averaging 19ppg/8 reb as a Mav in only about 27 min

Granted he played well in his time as a Maverick, the 5 year contract they signed him to quickly became a mistake. The 96-97 season was his 6th year in the league and was his best.

Sam Cassell was Jason Kidd's replacement averaging around 18ppg/ 8 ast for most of his productive career and did not even get a fair chance here

Cassell was here for 16 games, he was in his 4th season, and he was 27. Previous three years 6.7 / 2.9, 9.5 / 4.9, 14.5 / 4.6. Those are nowhere near 18 / 8, nor were they that productive. Only after Dallas traded him, did he become a great ball player and reach 18 / 8.
Was he Kidd’s replacement? Who knows, obviously Nelson didn’t like him.

Jim Jackson averaged around 20ppg/5 reb and was a good young talent

JJ was good. JJ was also injury prone. He had his best season with the Mavs.

George McCloud was good for 18ppg/4 reb

McCloud was a spare. He averaged 14 / 3 the year we traded him. All he did was chuck up 3s, 95-96 avg 8.6 3pt apg, 96-97 avg 5 3pt apg . Remember, he holds the NBA record for 678 3 pt attempts in a season.

Well if I remember correctly, Don Nelson thought he would be great in a zone defense. What Don Nelson over looked or did not know at the time of the trade was the defensive three second rule.

You are incorrect here. Bradley was traded for on February 17, 1997. Illegal defense was eliminated and the three second rule was put in place for the 01-02 season.

Bradley did alter shots but was not even up to par with Manute Bol in the blocked shot category. He was a below average rebounder for his size.

All-time shot block list #11- Shawn Bradley (2119). #12-Manute Bol (2086)

Bradley - - 8.1 / 6.3 / 2.5 (12 years)
Bol - - 2.6 / 4.2 / 3.3 (10 seasons, really 8, last two seasons consisted of GP 14 & 5)

Yes, Bol blocked a ton of shots, but what else did he do?

All in all, Nelson was hired as the GM on February 7, 1997.
The Kidd for Cassell/Finley deal was December 26, 1996.
The Bradley deal was February 17, 1997.
He did the right the thing. Jim Cleamons was the coach for crying out loud! Nelson took over the next year and endured two pretty crappy seasons before the ship was turned in the right direction.

Good trades = Kurt Nimphius for James Donaldson, Robert Traylor for Dirk
Bad trades = Harris for Kidd, Donaldson for Brian Quinnett, and at the time Pat Garrity, Martin Muursepp, Bubba Wells, 1999 first rounder (Marion) for Nash

BLKMN22 wrote:Well if I remember correctly, Don Nelson thought he would be great in a zone defense. What Don Nelson over looked or did not know at the time of the trade was the defensive three second rule. Bradley would not be allowed just to camp out in the paint like Nelson intended him to. Bradley did alter shots but was not even up to par with Manute Bol in the blocked shot category. He was a below average rebounder for his size. It was almost like he rebounded by accident. He was a great person and family man but he really was not one in love with the game of basketball. More often than not it was extremely frustrating to watch him play.

I've always said that the real reason Bradley wasn't good was because opposing dunkers/scorers licked their lips at the prospect of playing against Bradley. No one was afraid to drive to the rim with him under it. He may have altered some shots here and there, but his presence created more attempts at the rim, not less.

when you think of bad trades, there has to be such a big disparity in outcome that it warrants being labeled as such.

Kidd for Harris, is a bad trade- but easily not the worst- as Kidd is still a relatively good player...

Easily, the worst trade in history for the Mavs was Dale Ellis for Al Wood.

I don't think people realize just how productive Dale Ellis was- He is in the top 40 scoring ALL TIME in NBA HIstory. He is top 15 in 3pt shooting percentage (based on 1000 attempts). He is one of the deadliest shooters period in NBA history. If the Mavs had kept that core- with the development of Dale Ellis- (Mark Aguirre, Detlef, Sam Perkins, Ro Blackman, etc), damn. That's a ridiculous scoring team.

Al Wood on the other hand is a virtual unknown... does anyone have a "what happened to" update on him?

I have to nominate the trade that took us out of the opportunity to land Tim Duncan.
That would be the notorious Eric Montross & #9 (Samaki Walker) for #6 (Antoine Walker) and an unprotected first (#6 Ron Mercer - TD went #1) the following season.

I have to nominate the trade that took us out of the opportunity to land Tim Duncan.
That would be the notorious Eric Montross & #9 (Samaki Walker) for #6 (Antoine Walker) and an unprotected first (#6 Ron Mercer - TD went #1) the following season.

opportunity?
notorious?

How does the #6 pick get TD?

In 1996 twelve teams passed on one of the greatest players of the decade, including the Mavs.

12 teams may have passed on kobe but he was dead set on going to a big city, if we took him we wouldve just traded him b/c he wouldve refused to play for us

studcrackers wrote:12 teams may have passed on kobe but he was dead set on going to a big city, if we took him we wouldve just traded him b/c he wouldve refused to play for us

Didn't stop Charlotte from taking him, and subsequently getting one of the best passing big man in the game.

or it was a deal done before the draft

trust me, just go on the lakers board and ask them about it. kobe wasnt going to be a mav or any team that wasnt in a gigantic market

I think you guys are going too deep into the trading regrets.
Once a while I will hear some people saying they had a big regrets opn trades or drafts.

But PLEASE people understand this word: CHANCE

got it?

Gatling was subpar in DAL; he did nothing once Kidd got traded away.
He was brought in to help the 3Js as the "missing PF link"
one could argue that Zacanelli blew it up too soon or that Jim Cleamons was terrible and players should not be judged under his tenure, but Gatling played in a sum total of 44 games for DAL and while he averaged 19ppg the team won a grand total of 24 that whole season.

and if you want a bad trade:
Mashburn to MIA
fo Danilovic, Muursepp, and KT

KT played in 5 total games for DAL - wasted trade