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Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17

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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#201 » by Hottie McShotty » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:43 pm

Mehar wrote:Matt Chapman is Leading Off? (LOL). Not sure why we traded Max Castillo, if Merrifield is not going to be in CF when Springer is out. Cannot understand this love affair of Tapia playing CF. Another joke lineup today.


Seriously I have no idea what this manager and front office is doing. Reeks of desperation if you ask me. Chapman leading off? :lol:

Get these **** clowns out of Toronto!
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#202 » by Kurtz » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:47 pm

Mehar wrote:
Kurtz wrote:
Mehar wrote:With a 174 million payroll right now also. Rogers has provided the financial resources to Shatkins. Ryu, Kikuchi, and Berrios are making more combined in 2022, than the entire Payroll of the Orioles. Jays are spending significantly more than the Orioles, Rays, Twins, Mariners, and the Indians that are in the Wild Card Hunt. People forget how terrible this team was from 2017 to 2019, winning 76, 73, and 67 games those years. Fans were still patient. Last year, we had an unbelievable offense, but our Bullpen was trash in the first 3 months. This past off-season, the Bullpen was not fully addressed as Shatkins threw the Bullpen money away, to throw 36 million in the toilet (16 million this year) to a guy in Kikuchi who Seattle let go after his 5.98 ERA in his last 13 Starts of 2021. Montoyo was fired. So, now if this team misses the playoffs, it is time for both Shapiro and Atkins to be fired also. Clean house with the coaches also- including Pete Walker who has been here 10 years with dismal results. Shatkins tried their best, but the results on the field did not materialize. The organizational pitching depth is also a disgrace. Toronto will be an attractive destination to potential Shapiro and Atkins replacements, unlike in years past. An attractive destination for potential managers around the league also. I agree with your post.


I agree with the bulk of your post (except for the Pete Walker part - he's done some impressive things here), but note that 174m payroll is only the 11th highest in the league. Let's not dismiss the culpability of Rogers who specifically hired Shapiro because of the promise that he could build a sustainable contender on a budget.

Respectfully, can you please elaborate on some of the impressive things Pete Walker has done? I keep hearing this from the media and some posters, but the Jays pitching statistics (Bullpen and Starters) have been underwhelming for a decade. People mention Robbie Ray, but Ray was an All-Star who had very good pitching seasons with the Diamondbacks. Berrios has gone south this year. Walker was supposed to transform Kikuchi into a decent pitcher, and that did not work out. Last year's bullpen in the first half was one of the worst I have seen in this franchise's history. Pete Walker was also himself a mediocre pitcher, having watched him pitch in person at the Rogers Centre when Carlos Tosca was manager nearly 20 years ago. Walker might be a nice guy, but I hope he is not back for a 11th season next year.


Well, the BP has its own coach, and given the lack of talent there I think that Matt Buschmann has done an adequate job.

As for starters - I can name you guys like Matz, Happ, Estrada, etc...but honestly, if you weren't impressed by Ray going from a near-7 ERA in 2020 to a CY Young winner in 2021 while cutting his walk rate like 3-fold under Walker then I don't think any of these other names would impress you either.

I guess I would pose this question back to you: Can you think of some names of starters who struggled here but then went on to turn their careers around under a new pitching coach?

And a secondary question: What available pitching coach would you like to bring in to replace Walker, and why?
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#203 » by Corinne » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:29 pm

The commentators are saying Kikuchi is moving to the bullpen.
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#204 » by Asianiac_24 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:34 pm

Playing Tapia in CF defeats the entire purpose of trading for Merrifield, or even signing JBJ. Merrifield, Springer, JBJ, and Zimmer(as a defensive sub) are the only guys who should be playing CF.

It’s like the FO bought Schneider a Tacoma and a Sienna for moving, but Schneider insists on using his Miata.
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#205 » by Cyrus » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:35 pm

I thought Baseball players are creatures of comfort, and they have a new lineup basically everyday, how are they going to get some consistency?
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#206 » by Mehar » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:46 pm

Kurtz wrote:
Mehar wrote:
Kurtz wrote:
I agree with the bulk of your post (except for the Pete Walker part - he's done some impressive things here), but note that 174m payroll is only the 11th highest in the league. Let's not dismiss the culpability of Rogers who specifically hired Shapiro because of the promise that he could build a sustainable contender on a budget.

Respectfully, can you please elaborate on some of the impressive things Pete Walker has done? I keep hearing this from the media and some posters, but the Jays pitching statistics (Bullpen and Starters) have been underwhelming for a decade. People mention Robbie Ray, but Ray was an All-Star who had very good pitching seasons with the Diamondbacks. Berrios has gone south this year. Walker was supposed to transform Kikuchi into a decent pitcher, and that did not work out. Last year's bullpen in the first half was one of the worst I have seen in this franchise's history. Pete Walker was also himself a mediocre pitcher, having watched him pitch in person at the Rogers Centre when Carlos Tosca was manager nearly 20 years ago. Walker might be a nice guy, but I hope he is not back for a 11th season next year.


Well, the BP has its own coach, and given the lack of talent there I think that Matt Buschmann has done an adequate job.

As for starters - I can name you guys like Matz, Happ, Estrada, etc...but honestly, if you weren't impressed by Ray going from a near-7 ERA in 2020 to a CY Young winner in 2021 while cutting his walk rate like 3-fold under Walker then I don't think any of these other names would impress you either.

I guess I would pose this question back to you: Can you think of some names of starters who struggled here but then went on to turn their careers around under a new pitching coach?

And a secondary question: What available pitching coach would you like to bring in to replace Walker, and why?

After this season, I would try to hire a guy like Greg Maddux, and bring him to Toronto. A Hall of Fame pitcher, who is coaching in College right now, after spending many years as a Baseball Special Assistant. I would prefer to hire a guy who had success as a Pitcher. Just my preference. You might think Walker did a good job over 10 years, but I think it is time to turn the page on him. Happ was underwhelming as a Jay from 2012 to 2014. He came back to Toronto in 2016, after enjoying great success in Pittsburgh in 2015. He credited the Pittsburgh Pitching Coach for helping resurrect his career, when the Jays signed him to replace David Price. Estrada was good initially, but fell off, and was absolutely terrible like Kikuchi in 2017 and 2018, and then was not brought back. He had ERA of 5.64 in 2018, and 4.98 in 2017 both years; as he would melt down on the mound like Kikuchi. Walker was supposed to fix Kikuchi, but that never happened. Berrios has struggled very mightily this year, and is a shell of himself from his days in Minnesota. So, I am in favour of letting Walker go and not bringing him back for year 11.
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#207 » by Raider917 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:50 pm

espinal is looking better now
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#208 » by vaff87 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:53 pm

Asianiac_24 wrote:Playing Tapia in CF defeats the entire purpose of trading for Merrifield, or even signing JBJ. Merrifield, Springer, JBJ, and Zimmer(as a defensive sub) are the only guys who should be playing CF.

It’s like the FO bought Schneider a Tacoma and a Sienna for moving, but Schneider insists on using his Miata.


Zimmer was DFA’d.
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#209 » by TOStateofMind » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:30 pm

This offense is just unfathomably bad.
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#210 » by Raider917 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:33 pm

not scoring a run for stripling is cruel
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#211 » by Corinne » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:35 pm

Stripling is just a breath of fresh air.

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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#212 » by Lateral Quicks » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:39 pm

Starting Chapman at leadoff is just bizarre.

Having 2 hits against Voth is inexcusable. Gerritt Cole he is not.
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#213 » by Kurtz » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:46 pm

Mehar wrote:
Kurtz wrote:
Mehar wrote:Respectfully, can you please elaborate on some of the impressive things Pete Walker has done? I keep hearing this from the media and some posters, but the Jays pitching statistics (Bullpen and Starters) have been underwhelming for a decade. People mention Robbie Ray, but Ray was an All-Star who had very good pitching seasons with the Diamondbacks. Berrios has gone south this year. Walker was supposed to transform Kikuchi into a decent pitcher, and that did not work out. Last year's bullpen in the first half was one of the worst I have seen in this franchise's history. Pete Walker was also himself a mediocre pitcher, having watched him pitch in person at the Rogers Centre when Carlos Tosca was manager nearly 20 years ago. Walker might be a nice guy, but I hope he is not back for a 11th season next year.


Well, the BP has its own coach, and given the lack of talent there I think that Matt Buschmann has done an adequate job.

As for starters - I can name you guys like Matz, Happ, Estrada, etc...but honestly, if you weren't impressed by Ray going from a near-7 ERA in 2020 to a CY Young winner in 2021 while cutting his walk rate like 3-fold under Walker then I don't think any of these other names would impress you either.

I guess I would pose this question back to you: Can you think of some names of starters who struggled here but then went on to turn their careers around under a new pitching coach?

And a secondary question: What available pitching coach would you like to bring in to replace Walker, and why?

After this season, I would try to hire a guy like Greg Maddux, and bring him to Toronto. A Hall of Fame pitcher, who is coaching in College right now, after spending many years as a Baseball Special Assistant. I would prefer to hire a guy who had success as a Pitcher. Just my preference. You might think Walker did a good job over 10 years, but I think it is time to turn the page on him. Happ was underwhelming as a Jay from 2012 to 2014. He came back to Toronto in 2016, after enjoying great success in Pittsburgh in 2015. He credited the Pittsburgh Pitching Coach for helping resurrect his career, when the Jays signed him to replace David Price. Estrada was good initially, but fell off, and was absolutely terrible like Kikuchi in 2017 and 2018, and then was not brought back. He had ERA of 5.64 in 2018, and 4.98 in 2017 both years; as he would melt down on the mound like Kikuchi. Walker was supposed to fix Kikuchi, but that never happened. Berrios has struggled very mightily this year, and is a shell of himself from his days in Minnesota. So, I am in favour of letting Walker go and not bringing him back for year 11.


Can't really expect Walker to fix Kikuchi. He's a garbage pitcher who had a good 2 month stretch last year and then regressed to his terrible self after the spider tack ban. That was just a terrible signing by our management, which I called out the day of. The hope was he could replicate the magic he pulled off with another wild lefty as he did with Ray, but to expect it to happen was overly optimistic.

I can understand blaming Walker for Berrios - they've been trying small adjustments with him all year and it's yet to pay off. But if we're blaming him for what Berrios is doing this year, do we credit him for what Stripling is doing? Does he get any credit for Manoah, or Gausman being on pace for a career year?

And off course I wouldn't turn my back on a name like Maddux, but he doesn't have a track record as a coach in the majors and having spent his career in the south I wonder if he'd even want to go up North.
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#214 » by Raider917 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:50 pm

the sweep is on now
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#215 » by Randle McMurphy » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:52 pm

Pulling Stripling after one hit and 72 pitches is hilarious stuff. The sport of baseball may or may not be broken, but it's clear that this organization's philosophy definitely is.
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#216 » by vaff87 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:55 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:Pulling Stripling after one hit and 72 pitches is hilarious stuff. The sport of baseball may or may not be broken, but it's clear that this organization's philosophy definitely is.


Seriously, wtf was that? He gave up a 73 mph single, and he gets pulled.
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#217 » by Raider917 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:03 pm

How far can kirks trade value slide?
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#218 » by vaff87 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:04 pm

Lateral Quicks wrote:Starting Chapman at leadoff is just bizarre.

Having 2 hits against Voth is inexcusable. Gerritt Cole he is not.


Funny thing is, in all likelihood we’d probably be doing better if it was Gerrit Cole. We’ve done all right vs him over the last two years.
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#219 » by vaff87 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:06 pm

Raider917 wrote:How far can kirks trade value slide?


Probably not that far, unless he suffers a serious injury. Everyone knows he can hit; and not many catchers can hit.
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Re: Baltimore Orioles (59-55) @ Toronto Blue Jays (61-52) - August 15-17 

Post#220 » by Raider917 » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:12 pm

1st career pinch hit? thats hard to believe

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