OT: Manny Ramirez Tested Positive, Suspended 50 Games

[Mustard_Tiger]

Looks like Manny forgot to take the pills that covered up his injections.

Who cares, really. 3/4 of the sluggers in the past decade have or have had performance enhancing drugs in their systems, so what's the difference: they're now all on an even playing field regardless.

Steroids have been used in baseball since the 1960s. It's not a big deal.

[Mustard_Tiger]

I've always thought of Manny being one of the best right handed hitters of all time...and now this.

Not sure how that changed today at all. He's still one of the best RH hitters of all time.

[Mustard_Tiger]

I'm kind of leaning towards the medication thing at the moment because I don't think anyone with half a brain (including Manny) would knowingly take PEDs at this point in time because of all the attention surrounding the issue. A slugger like Manny would get extra attention because of his power numbers, so it just seems crazy for a person in his position to take the PEDs.

If he did do it knowingly then I don't know what to say.

I'm sure Manny used them knowingly, just like I'm sure many others players right now are also using PEDs knowingly.

He wouldn't have any reason to use the drug that he reportedly used (HcG) outside of anabolic steroid drug cycles.

[Mustard_Tiger]

This is HUGE!! Now we just need to catch Griffey, Pujols and Thome. Maybe Delgado, too.

no Jeter?

[LittleOzzy]

Looks like Manny forgot to take the pills that covered up his injections.

Who cares, really. 3/4 of the sluggers in the past decade have or have had performance enhancing drugs in their systems, so what's the difference: they're now all on an even playing field regardless.

Steroids have been used in baseball since the 1960s. It's not a big deal.

It's not a big deal?

It's a huge deal and is ruining MLB. Records mean nothing now and for baseball that's huge.

I can't believe you're just brushing this off like it's nothing. MLB will be toast if they can't correct this. Suspending Manny for 50 games is a good start.

Tough suspensions and void contacts is the only way they are going to fix this. I want to see baseball players be all that they can be by working hard from day one, I don't want to see super athletes on drugs break records just to take them away from players who actually earned them.

[Mustard_Tiger]

It's not a big deal?

No, it's not a big deal. Steroids are widely used in baseball, and have been for over 40 years now.

It's a huge deal and is ruining MLB. Records mean nothing now and for baseball that's huge.

You talk like the records were actually "clean" in the first place. Even back when Babe Ruth played, players were using testosterone enhancers.

I can't believe you're just brushing this off like it's nothing. MLB will be toast if they can't correct this. Suspending Manny for 50 games is a good start.

MLB baseball will never be "toast." They have a monopoly in the United States, and are a huge business. Attendance and television ratings have never been better than they are right now. Reports of steroid use among the players have been coming out for nearly 10 years, and most teams currently roster steroid users, yet it hasn't been detrimental to their business. So I'm not sure why anybody would think it would hurt them now.

Tough suspensions and void contacts is the only way they are going to fix this.

It will never be fixed. Athletes will always strive to be the best they can possibly be, and new undetectable drugs will always be produced.

I want to see baseball players be all that they can be by working hard from day one

And working hard? Do you have any idea what anabolic steroids do? If anything, a person has to work out even harder to reap the effects of the drugs.

I don't want to see super athletes on drugs break records just to take them away from players who actually earned them.

Who were these players that actually earned them? The guys that were on steroids and amphetamines in the 60s (Hank Aaron and Willie Mays)?

Little Ozzy, you are living in a dream world.

[evilRyu]

Looks like Manny forgot to take the pills that covered up his injections.

Who cares, really. 3/4 of the sluggers in the past decade have or have had performance enhancing drugs in their systems, so what's the difference: they're now all on an even playing field regardless.

Steroids have been used in baseball since the 1960s. It's not a big deal.

It's not a big deal?

It's a huge deal and is ruining MLB. Records mean nothing now and for baseball that's huge.

I can't believe you're just brushing this off like it's nothing. MLB will be toast if they can't correct this. Suspending Manny for 50 games is a good start.

Tough suspensions and void contacts is the only way they are going to fix this. I want to see baseball players be all that they can be by working hard from day one, I don't want to see super athletes on drugs break records just to take them away from players who actually earned them.

agreed, i can't believe he just brushed this off.. it just seems that all he wants to is be a HEY LOOK AT ME, I HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION type of approach...... my goodness...

[Mustard_Tiger]

agreed, i can't believe he just brushed this off.. it just seems that all he wants to is be a HEY LOOK AT ME, I HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION type of approach...... my goodness...

No, unlike you two I guess, I actually have some knowledge about the history of baseball.

[Seasontickets]

Here's Bill Simmon's take on the whole thing.

"And what about Manny?" my son asks. "He tested positive for performance enhancers in 2009 with the Dodgers. How do you know he wasn't using that whole time?"

"Well, we don't," I say. "But that was kind of a fluke -- he had a doctor in Florida who prescribed him a banned substance, and ..."

"Come on, Dad, I read your Red Sox book. You said that at least you knew Manny couldn't have ever used steroids because he was too dumb to figure out how to stick to a cycle. Then he tested positive. You were, like, his biggest fan. You wrote a big piece after he got traded that was so long, it took me a week to read it."

I just wanted to say...David Ortiz definitely took steroids in my opinion.
Manny...why Manny - he had all the ability.

PS. And the whistleblower was...none other than public enemy #1 Jose Canseco.

[Mustard_Tiger]

I just wanted to say...David Ortiz definitely took steroids in my opinion.

I believe that he did.

Manny...why Manny - he had all the ability.

And Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and Alex Rodriguez didn't? Those are 3 of the most talented players of all time. There is simply a drug culture in baseball.

[J-Roc]

This is HUGE!! Now we just need to catch Griffey, Pujols and Thome. Maybe Delgado, too.

no Jeter?

I actually did think about him when I heard this news today. I'd almost feel better if just everyone admitted something so we could move on. Right now they only guys who have been named are a few who got tested, and a bunch who used particular dealers. There should be more pitchers, too.

[Kevin Willis]

It's not a big deal?

No, it's not a big deal. Steroids are widely used in baseball, and have been for over 40 years now.

It's a huge deal and is ruining MLB. Records mean nothing now and for baseball that's huge.

You talk like the records were actually "clean" in the first place. Even back when Babe Ruth played, players were using testosterone enhancers.

I can't believe you're just brushing this off like it's nothing. MLB will be toast if they can't correct this. Suspending Manny for 50 games is a good start.

MLB baseball will never be "toast." They have a monopoly in the United States, and are a huge business. Attendance and television ratings have never been better than they are right now. Reports of steroid use among the players have been coming out for nearly 10 years, and most teams currently roster steroid users, yet it hasn't been detrimental to their business. So I'm not sure why anybody would think it would hurt them now.

Tough suspensions and void contacts is the only way they are going to fix this.

It will never be fixed. Athletes will always strive to be the best they can possibly be, and new undetectable drugs will always be produced.

I want to see baseball players be all that they can be by working hard from day one

And working hard? Do you have any idea what anabolic steroids do? If anything, a person has to work out even harder to reap the effects of the drugs.

I don't want to see super athletes on drugs break records just to take them away from players who actually earned them.

Who were these players that actually earned them? The guys that were on steroids and amphetamines in the 60s (Hank Aaron and Willie Mays)?

Little Ozzy, you are living in a dream world.

+1. Agree with everything Mustard_Tiger said. It's widespread and it has been widespread for awhile. People should not be shocked.

[Alfred]

People shouldn't be shocked, but people shouldn't accept it. All cheating does is punish the honest people who didn't cheat. If half of the leage juices, and the other half don't because it's against the rules, the cheaters are getting a leg up on the competition.

Cheating, which juicing essentially is, should never, ever be rewarded or "who cares"ed away. Having a league that allows juicing to happen basically makes juicing a requirement. If you aren't taking, you're automatically a few steps behind the people who are.

[Hendrix]

BREAKING NEWS:

It's apparetly a sexual enhancement drug:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns

I suppose that's a "performance enhancing drug" but not on the baseball field

I take what I said back then. Manny is still a stud - just not in the bedroom. I can also see why he might not want to appeal that. He's going to get blasted when he goes to opposing parks now. "A home run is the only thing you can get up." "Manny is having trouble swinging for the fences." It won't end that's for sure...

There's less teh 1% chance this has anything to do with sexual enhancment, and every major leaguer knows it. The only reason they would ever give it out for that is if Manny had ED because of low testerone. Not just any kind of ED, but they'de give HCG in combination with testosterone not just HCG by itself.

Basically all HCG is used for in men is to either keep your balls working while you're on a cycle of steroids, or jump start them when you're coming off steroids.

I forget a lot of this stuff because I havn't studied it in a while. But this is ballpark.

The Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Testicular axis (HPGA) has differnt pathways, and negitive feedback loops that change/shutdown once you add extra testosterone into your body. Normally your Hypothalamus produces GnRH which tells your pituitary to produce LH/FSH. LH/FSH then tell your balls to produce testosterone/Estrogen, and some other hormones. Then through a negative feedback loop those hormones tell your hpothalamus to produce more or less GnRH.

Now if you have way too much testosterone in your body (due to suplimentation) then the negative feedback loop tells the system to shut down and stop producing everything (which is why steroid users get small balls if they don't use HCG). HCG mimics LH, to help get your body producing testosterone again (with the combination of an SERM like clomid/novladex) and jump start the whole HPG axis or it's used during a cycle to prevent shutdown of the HPGA in the first place.


I'm guessing the reason HCG was found and not steroids is because most major leaguers probably use a steroid (in combination with HGH) with a small halflife/detection time. Testosterone suspension for example has a detection time of 1 day, while HCG has a half life of 5 days (and guessing a detection time of longer). So it's still hard to catch theme, because they need to catch them in that window.


If manny was smart though he would have just pissed on a pregnency test before taking the test because those test spefically for HCG.