Reds trade for Rolen

[mapko81]

Encarnion can be a good defensive 3B. He is more than capable of fielding that position. His errors usually come from trying to do too much, or not being focused enough, but that is something that can be corrected with coaching and maturity.

People are ornery because the Jays are losing right now, but the only mistake Ricciardi has made was making the whole Halladay thing so public. That wasn't good for anyone. This was a good trade though, and trading Halladay just for the sake of trading him, instead of to be a clear winner in the transaction, made no sense (I expect us to be able to get more in the off-season when teams that fall short this year get more desperate).

[Hoopstarr]

Oh man, I liked Rolen.. too bad we're in rebuilding mode. I will miss him. His defense, flawless! His bat, sweet! He rocks, he's scott the rock, he's rockin Rolen, I wanna hang out with him and party everyday!

Dude, that screen name is NOT cool.

[Hoopstarr]

People are ornery because the Jays are losing right now, but the only mistake Ricciardi has made was making the whole Halladay thing so public. That wasn't good for anyone. This was a good trade though, and trading Halladay just for the sake of trading him, instead of to be a clear winner in the transaction, made no sense (I expect us to be able to get more in the off-season when teams that fall short this year get more desperate).

He didn't make it public. In fact he was very clear from the beginning that he was only listening to offers and not actively looking to move him, and that they'd have to be wowed to consider a trade and throughout that talks he maintained that they "haven't been wowed yet". It's not his fault that it became a circus in the US media because big market teams were interested.

[-MetA4-]

I like the acquisitions. Curious that we've retained Frasor, but if the market wasn't there, we're better off offering him arbitration and either a) keeping him, or b) receiving more in compensation if he declines than we'd receive in a trade, likely.

Theres still an opportunity to trade both Frasor and Downs during the August waiver deadline.

[Hoopstarr]

haha JP almost had me saying something positive about him. If Encarnacion is the best he can do, fire his ass.

Any complaining about this trade is ridiculous. I love Rolen myself and will miss him but this trade 1) saves 11M next year, 2) adds some very good pitching prospects 3) sells high on an aging, injury-prone 3B who asked to be traded. Encarnacion is just frosting on the deal. He's an awful fielder but adds much needed power and he might even play DH, and he's only signed through next year anyway. I can't see how this could possibly be a bad trade unless people actually thought Alonso was coming here. That was simply never gonna happen so don't let that cloud your opinion of the trade, because it's a very good one.

[Avenger]

haha JP almost had me saying something positive about him. If Encarnacion is the best he can do, fire his ass.

Any complaining about this trade is ridiculous. I love Rolen myself and will miss him but this trade 1) saves 11M next year, 2) adds some very good pitching prospects 3) sells high on an aging, injury-prone 3B who asked to be traded. Encarnacion is just frosting on the deal. He's an awful fielder but adds much needed power and he might even play DH, and he's only signed through next year anyway. I can't see how this could possibly be a bad trade unless people actually thought Alonso was coming here. That was simply never gonna happen so don't let that cloud your opinion of the trade, because it's a very good one.

that comment was before i read anything about the two pitchers, now obviously i think its a great deal

[Modern_epic]

I like the acquisitions. Curious that we've retained Frasor, but if the market wasn't there, we're better off offering him arbitration and either a) keeping him, or b) receiving more in compensation if he declines than we'd receive in a trade, likely.

I was more curious about Tallet not being moved. Frasor's valued may have peaked, but he's only playing slightly above his head. Tallet always has LOOGY value, but looks like your 5th starter right now. Which is a roll we don't really need him in.

But, as MetA4 pointed out, these are the sort of guys who frequently clear trade waivers.

Any complaining about this trade is ridiculous. I love Rolen myself and will miss him but this trade 1) saves 11M next year,

No, it saves about $6, but it is still a good thing if it goes back into payroll.

[Hoopstarr]

Any complaining about this trade is ridiculous. I love Rolen myself and will miss him but this trade 1) saves 11M next year,

No, it saves about $6, but it is still a good thing if it goes back into payroll.[/quote]

True

[s e n s i]

The part that baffles me is not shopping Scutaro around. Unless Scutaro has verbally committed to the Jays that he wants to stay in Toronto, he has an expiring contract, having a career year, and could've net you a pretty good prospect or two. Unless the Jays are actually thinking we still have an outside shot at the wild card, I'm surprised there was no deal.

2010 always was and still is the year, apparently. Moving Scoots was logical from your viewpoint, but not if we're planning to contend next year. Unless you want Johnny Mac starting 75% of the games at SS and at the 9 hole (not entirely dependent on the SS position; ie Manny Lee), we're going to need to keep Scoots since we don't have another player anywhere near the team capable of contributing with the bat or with the glove like Marco does.

I think he'd accept something modest in the offseason seeing as we're the first team to actually give him a legit shot at playing full-time, even if it was sorta by default. He and Hilly at the top of the order are pretty damn good.

[Anatomize]

Man, how many pitchers do we possibly need? JP get us a Big Bat for once! Its been years since we had a legit slugger in our lineup

My sentiments exactly... you never hear about the Jays trying to get a solid bat, which is exactly what they lack... thanks to the lack of production from Rios and 'the Wells is running dry!'

Jays are not lacking power, we're lacking running.

We don't play small ball, or rather we can't. When Scutaro gets on base consistently, we win the majority of the games, and he's not even a speed threat. Look at the Anaheim Angels lineup, they don't hit for power but win a ton of games because guys like Figgins and Reggie Willits consistently steal bases and get in scoring position. It allows them to win close low run ball games since their pitching is always solid.

This is the type of mentality Jays need to develop, when we're not hitting for homeruns, we're not scoring runs at all; this is where speed is a major factor. We've been the worst stolen base team in the league for the past few years because our entire system is based around OBP, it's time for a change of style.

Every top team possesses some speed, whether it's Detroit (Granderson), TB (Upton/Crawford), LAD (Furcal/Pierre/Loney/Kemp), Boston (Ellsbury/Bay), and so on. You need to have runners who distract the pitcher and keep him thinking.

[Mustard_Tiger]

I might try to sign Figgins in the offseason if I was the Jays.

And I would definitely think about trying to trade Frasor/Downs/Tallet over the next month. Getting rid of one or two of those guys could save more money so they can possibly allocate it elsewhere (they seem to have plenty of good relievers now without them).

[Mustard_Tiger]

Man, how many pitchers do we possibly need? JP get us a Big Bat for once! Its been years since we had a legit slugger in our lineup

My sentiments exactly... you never hear about the Jays trying to get a solid bat, which is exactly what they lack... thanks to the lack of production from Rios and 'the Wells is running dry!'

Jays are not lacking power, we're lacking running.

We don't play small ball, or rather we can't. When Scutaro gets on base consistently, we win the majority of the games, and he's not even a speed threat. Look at the Anaheim Angels lineup, they don't hit for power but win a ton of games because guys like Figgins and Reggie Willits consistently steal bases and get in scoring position. It allows them to win close low run ball games since their pitching is always solid.

This is the type of mentality Jays need to develop, when we're not hitting for homeruns, we're not scoring runs at all; this is where speed is a major factor. We've been the worst stolen base team in the league for the past few years because our entire system is based around OBP, it's time for a change of style.

Every top team possesses some speed, whether it's Detroit (Granderson), TB (Upton/Crawford), LAD (Furcal/Pierre/Loney/Kemp), Boston (Ellsbury/Bay), and so on. You need to have runners who distract the pitcher and keep him thinking.

The Yankees and Red Sox are the two best teams in the league, and really don't run at all. The one main thing they have in common offensively is a high OBP (and SLG)...

[Bam-Bam Bigelow]

Good trade (And I'm a fan that wants JP fired). The money saved can go to bringing Scutaro back and Stewart is a very solid prospect with closer stuff.

[zilby]

Oh man, I liked Rolen.. too bad we're in rebuilding mode. I will miss him. His defense, flawless! His bat, sweet! He rocks, he's scott the rock, he's rockin Rolen, I wanna hang out with him and party everyday!

Dude, that screen name is NOT cool.

rofl i saw that coming sooner or later

[Peteros]

Cinci is not in contention. Why did they make this trade? It puzzles me. They gave away younger players to get an aging 3rd basemen, that is injury prone??

[Anatomize]

The Yankees and Red Sox are the two best teams in the league, and really don't run at all. The one main thing they have in common offensively is a high OBP (and SLG)...

Since baseball doesn't have a salary cap, the Red sox and Yankees can afford to have a way better team than us even without speed. I cited several examples, including the Red Sox of how speed wins and why it wins, all you said was that the two top teams in the league who are consequently the highest paid don't run, that's simply because they have allstar talent from 1-9.

By the way: Johnny Damon - Speed, Derek Jeter - speed, A-Rod - speed, Jason Bay - speed, Ellsbury - speed, Pedroia - speed

Who has speed on our team? Alex Rios

Please don't ever compare the Blue Jays hitting to these teams, it's not even fair.

[Mustard_Tiger]

The Yankees and Red Sox are the two best teams in the league, and really don't run at all. The one main thing they have in common offensively is a high OBP (and SLG)...

Since baseball doesn't have a salary cap, the Red sox and Yankees can afford to have a way better team than us even without speed. I cited several examples, including the Red Sox of how speed wins and why it wins, all you said was that the two top teams in the league who are consequently the highest paid don't run, that's simply because they have allstar talent from 1-9.

By the way: Johnny Damon - Speed, Derek Jeter - speed, A-Rod - speed, Jason Bay - speed, Ellsbury - speed, Pedroia - speed

Who has speed on our team? Alex Rios

Please don't ever compare the Blue Jays hitting to these teams, it's not even fair.

I didn't compare the Jays hitting to those teams. I just pointed out that the best offensive teams in the league generally are the ones that get on base the most (it has nothing to do with speed). The Angels and Rays have great offenses because they rank in the top 5 in OBP and SLG.