What exactly is 'Bad Managing'?

[DonYon]

I've noticed that Cito Gaston takes alot of heat for majority of the bluejays losses around here and the media, especially when it's because of a relief pitcher coming in and blowing the game.

So apparently an example of bad managing is when the relief pitcher that comes into the game gives up the lead and ends up costing the win.

i have to disagree with this concept of 'bad managing'

how can you blame a manager for putting in a relief pitcher after the starter throws over 100 pitches? or blame him for putting in pitchers based on their track record against a hitter? heck i don't even mind managers making decisions based on pure gut if they think it's gonna help the team. baseball is one of those games where i think where pure luck has such a big impact on the outcome of the game.

All the managers can do is go with a decision that seems to make sense. They're not losers that make bonehead decisions for fun, they're all educated people will a wealth of baseball knowledge. otherwise they wouldn't have the job. They're gonna make decisions with good logic behind them.

I'll take today's game (June 6th) for example. unless you can somehow prove that brandon morrow or any other pitcher would not have given up 3 or more runs if they pitched during the 8th & 9th inning i don't see why cito deserves any heat. In the end, each member on the team takes part in the outcome of the game. Why not blame morrow for giving up that 1 run? Or blame aaron hill for not getting a hit in the entire game? Isn't vernon wells just as at fault for not hitting two homeruns instead of one?

What I'm trying to say is it doesn't make sense to pinpoint one person, or even two or three people for the team's loss. The entire team is responsible, and in some cases the fans are for not showing enough support during the early stages of the season. If you're gonna talk about cito gaston's 'bad managing' as the cause of the loss, you might as well blame his mother for giving birth to him.

The only example of 'bad managing' that actually happens in baseball is if a manager is not able to keep his players in check, or not being able to get maximum effort out of them.

What are your definitions of 'bad managing'?

EDIT: one more thing, I've heard the broadcasters say that cito is 'showing confidence in his players' when he chooses to keep someone in the game instead of switching the player with someone more suited for the situation. Do you guys think that's a valid reason behind not making what may be a logical in-game adjustment?

[Randle McMurphy]

Good in-game managers put their players in the best possible position to succeed. While I'm sure he brings other benefits to the team, Cito Gaston has never done this as an in-game manager of the Jays. He doesn't play the odds, percentages, doesn't pinch hit or pinch run when it makes sense to do so, and rarely brings in defensive replacements. All of this doesn't generally amount to much, but it can cost you a few games over a full season.

[Avenger]

Cito Derangement Syndrome
http://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?st ... 5195814510

[Randle McMurphy]

Cito Derangement Syndrome
http://www.battersbox.ca/article.php?st ... 5195814510

I read the article when he wrote it, it was as good a piece as Magpie has ever written.

But it still doesn't make Cito a good in-game manager or justify decisions like today's.

[J-Roc]

In the end, each member on the team takes part in the outcome of the game. Why not blame morrow for giving up that 1 run? Or blame aaron hill for not getting a hit in the entire game? Isn't vernon wells just as at fault for not hitting two homeruns instead of one?

+1

[tsherkin]

Why not blame morrow for giving up that 1 run? Or blame aaron hill for not getting a hit in the entire game? Isn't vernon wells just as at fault for not hitting two homeruns instead of one?

Because when you throw 7 innings of shut-out ball and your only blemish on the night is that the relief pitcher after you allowed an inherited runner to score, you are not at fault for losing the game. Blaming Vernon makes no sense because he was one of the few who actually contributed on offense. Hill certainly deserves blame and the relievers (Frasor in particular) and our catcher both deserve blame. I agree that Cito shouldn't be held to the lion's share of the blame here, but this particular paragraph is largely senseless and you knkow it.

What I'm trying to say is it doesn't make sense to pinpoint one person, or even two or three people for the team's loss. The entire team is responsible, and in some cases the fans are for not showing enough support during the early stages of the season. If you're gonna talk about cito gaston's 'bad managing' as the cause of the loss, you might as well blame his mother for giving birth to him.

This is hyperbole. Cito made some decisions that were extremely costly to the team's chances of winning the game, and that makes him one of the major culprits in a loss like this one. He's not the only guy at fault, certainly, but you can very much look at a few specific people for this one, and he's one of them.