Winners and Losers: MLB Trade Deadline 2010 (Yahoo)

[Strav]

I like this tidbit on the Jays:

Toronto Blue Jays. Not quite sure why GM Alex Anthopoulos is taking so much grief for not dealing Jose Bautista(notes) and for acquiring Anthony Gose in a trade for Brett Wallace(notes). In a market starved for power, Bautista leads the major leagues with 31 home runs, is slugging nearly .600 and won’t cost much more than $5 million next year. He is like the Padres: succeeding for a year, still can’t get any respect.

As for Gose, there are plenty of red flags: He’s only in High-A, he doesn’t have much pop, he strikes out too much and his baserunning skills need refining. If he is a legitimate plus center fielder, however, his fielding ability alone will get him to the major leagues and make him a worthwhile player. According to FanGraphs, San Diego’s Tony Gwynn(notes) Jr. is a negative-value hitter, and yet because he’s been baseball’s most effective defensive center fielder this year, he has provided nearly two wins of value. While Wallace has proven himself a middling-at-best first-base bat, the risk on Gose is a worthwhile one.

Also worth noting: Anthopoulos’ price on relievers Scott Downs(notes) and Jason Frasor(notes) never dropped, and it was only so high because both players could be Type A free agents this winter and carry two draft picks if offered arbitration. Even in a relief-poor market, Anthopoulos wasn’t going to settle for under-market offers, and he stuck to that principle.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=j ... sers073110

[V]

What could you say after this? We have a smart GM on our hands. First one since Gillick.

[Chevy Chase]

Big difference than the grade he got from ESPN. I think that once again Yahoo Sports got it right.

[aligator]

ESPN employs people who were fired by the Jays, so one cannot expect any objectivity there. The prospects that were traded were ****, nothing than the Jays could use. Far better to accumulate the draft picks. Many promising young players coming out of the past June draft and more of the same next year.

[CapeCrusader]

Didn't say anything that we didn't already know.

[Schad]

According to FanGraphs, San Diego’s Tony Gwynn(notes) Jr. is a negative-value hitter, and yet because he’s been baseball’s most effective defensive center fielder this year, he has provided nearly two wins of value.

Because he plays in the most extreme pitcher's park in baseball, where the alleys are 25 feet deeper than in the Dome. CF defense is always important, but Gwynn certainly wouldn't be a 2.5 WAR player here.

[Hoopstarr]

According to FanGraphs, San Diego’s Tony Gwynn(notes) Jr. is a negative-value hitter, and yet because he’s been baseball’s most effective defensive center fielder this year, he has provided nearly two wins of value.

Because he plays in the most extreme pitcher's park in baseball, where the alleys are 25 feet deeper than in the Dome. CF defense is always important, but Gwynn certainly wouldn't be a 2.5 WAR player here.

Pretty sure UZR is park-adjusted

[Schad]

Pretty sure UZR is park-adjusted

Yeah, it is, which means that his UZR/150 reflects the fact that he's playing in that cavernous stadium, and WAR justly rewards him for it. I just don't think that the Dome is the type of stadium where having that incredibly rangy center fielder is such that you can tolerate a guy with an OPS+ in the 70s.

[LBJSeizedMyID]

Regarding the ESPN debate, their mandate is pretty much like the hardon they have to piss off Raps fans. Stopped reading and subscribing to their magazine awhile ago.

[number15]

AA did a good job not panicing and kept his ground.... these guys will land us draft picks

though I woulda liked to see John Buck moved. JP Arencipia has earned the MLB job and we r better off giving him 2 months to gel, rather than throwing him in the fire next season. Plus it would have been a favor to Buck if they sent him to a contender.

[tsherkin]

Yeah, it is, which means that his UZR/150 reflects the fact that he's playing in that cavernous stadium, and WAR justly rewards him for it. I just don't think that the Dome is the type of stadium where having that incredibly rangy center fielder is such that you can tolerate a guy with an OPS+ in the 70s.

His OPS+ is pretty bad, at least every year but last year. He's at a round 80 at the moment for 2010.

Gwynn is interesting, though. He was hitting way better last year when his baBIP wasn't .251, but yeah, he's been pretty terrible this year and he doesn't have any kind of power. But he doesn't strike out a lot and he's decent at drawing walks, he just has no pop.

I'm totally rambling without purpose, though; last year was the only year he was anywhere decent as a hitter. Still, he's steadily improved his walk rate and his K rate has been noticeably better than league average for 3 years running now. That's not ALL that bad even despite the low OPS, especially when you consider his OBP. I suppose he's not really a single machine, though, and doesn't really get the extra bag all that often, so it's kind of a problem. *shrug*

[youngLion]

I like this tidbit on the Jays:

Toronto Blue Jays. Not quite sure why GM Alex Anthopoulos is taking so much grief for not dealing Jose Bautista(notes) and for acquiring Anthony Gose in a trade for Brett Wallace(notes). In a market starved for power, Bautista leads the major leagues with 31 home runs, is slugging nearly .600 and won’t cost much more than $5 million next year. He is like the Padres: succeeding for a year, still can’t get any respect.

As for Gose, there are plenty of red flags: He’s only in High-A, he doesn’t have much pop, he strikes out too much and his baserunning skills need refining. If he is a legitimate plus center fielder, however, his fielding ability alone will get him to the major leagues and make him a worthwhile player. According to FanGraphs, San Diego’s Tony Gwynn(notes) Jr. is a negative-value hitter, and yet because he’s been baseball’s most effective defensive center fielder this year, he has provided nearly two wins of value. While Wallace has proven himself a middling-at-best first-base bat, the risk on Gose is a worthwhile one.

Also worth noting: Anthopoulos’ price on relievers Scott Downs(notes) and Jason Frasor(notes) never dropped, and it was only so high because both players could be Type A free agents this winter and carry two draft picks if offered arbitration. Even in a relief-poor market, Anthopoulos wasn’t going to settle for under-market offers, and he stuck to that principle.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=j ... sers073110

I've got a few big problems with this article. First of all, the idea that Wallace has "proven himself a middling-at-best first-base bat" is nonsense. This is a guy that scouts all over the place love, and the idea that 450 plate appearances in Vegas prove that he's just going to be an average hitter is utter nonsense.

Frankly it amazes me how many posters on this board have gone from eagerly anticipating Wallace's arrival to deciding that he's nothing special overnight. The homerism for Anthopoulos is kind of deafening. I get it, you didn't like JP Riccardi. That's fine. But these days it almost seems as though the thing people like most about the trade is that Antopoulous made it, and now they're coming up with logic (in a deal that clearly lost the team value, whether or not you think Gose will be the better player) to justify their support of the GM.

[LBJSeizedMyID]

Three years in AAA, and still not doing anything to really justify a promotion. I think it's justified. We have more than enough power hitters. What the team needs is a legit top of the bat. Gose has the potential to provide that, with gold glove potential and a crazy good arm. It's a good deal.

[Msgrv32]

What could you say after this? We have a smart GM on our hands. First one since Gillick.

Maybe.

What about John Buck? Shouldn't he have been traded? Kevin Gregg? Lyle Overbay?

Why trade for Wallace in the first place? Michael Taylor seemed like a pretty near finished prospect yet he was dealt almost immediately after being traded for. Gose? Well sure he could be a good leadoff hitter with speed... could be the Dewayne Wise of the future ... cough cough.

He made two deals: one involving prospects, and one weeks ago. Trading Gonzalez was a smart move, if he traded Buck or one of the others I would call him a smart GM.

Smart GM? Maybe. But he missed some opprotunities to do a better job.

[LBJSeizedMyID]

What could you say after this? We have a smart GM on our hands. First one since Gillick.

What about John Buck? Shouldn't he have been traded? Kevin Gregg? Lyle Overbay?

He made two deals: one involving prospects, and one weeks ago. Trading Gonzalez was a smart move, if he traded Buck or one of the others I would call him a smart GM.

You do know the implications of not trading him right? If you traded Buck to the Red Sox for random mid level prospect, would you have been happy? Not only that, Buck becomes a Type B free agent, so if the Pirates signs Buck in the off season, the Red Sox ends up getting an additional draft pick.

So the trade becomes Toronto Gets Random Prospect.
Red Sox Gets John Buck for rest of the year + prospect.