Vernon Wells

[evilRyu]

We're all pretty hard on the guy, signed a huge contract, has failed to play to the level of it. His contract is unmovable (owed $100 million over the next 4 seasons), so we are pretty much stuck with him unless he opts out.

But he may very well could end up having the best career offensive numbers as a Jay. How do you all feel about that? Here's how he ranks currently in a number of offensive categories:

Games Played
1. Tony Fernandez 1450
2. Carlos Delgado 1423
3. Lloyd Moseby 1392
4. Vernon Wells 1355

At Bats
1. Tony Fernandez 5335
2. Vernon Wells 5329

Runs Scored
1. Carlos Delgado 889
2. Vernon Wells 771

Hits
1. Tony Fernandez 1583
2. Vernon Wells 1487

Total Bases
1. Carlos Delgado 2786
2. Vernon Wells 2517

Doubles
1. Carlos Delgado 343
2. Vernon Wells 332

Home Runs
1. Carlos Delgado 336
2. Vernon Wells 214

Runs Batted In
1. Carlos Delgado 1058
2. Vernon Wells 785

Extra Base Hits
1. Carlos Delgado 690
2. Vernon Wells 574

Stats from: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams ... _bat.shtml

He may own all of these categories, and more. He had an amazing season in 2006, but has tailed considerably. I'm a bit disappointed that he has regressed so much, and this is how I'll remember his "legacy" as a Jay, yet he will own most of these categories.

Thoughts?

[Schad]

Well, it largely owes to the fact that we haven't really had any career Jays...Delgado played nine full seasons, which is quite a bit but would be but a blip for many teams. Wells will take the top spot basically by virtue of the fact that we have no means to unload him; he isn't a bad player by any means, but there is something dubious about becoming the franchise's all-time everything player at a time when your team had spent the preceding three years wishing that they could dump you for a used Snuggie.

[SharoneWright]

And yet he'll be enshrined on the level of excellence... for a level of commonplaceness.

Got to justify the contract somehow. How about an enshrinement? (gag)

Nice guy though.

[baulderdash77]

I think that we're way to hard on Vernon. Yes he's overpaid, but when it's all said and done he's going to be right there with Doc as the best Blue Jay yet.

He's given us a high level of production for a long time. He hasn't been the league MVP that we hoped for, but he may see 5 all star games and 3-4 gold gloves. He's been bashed about being overpaid so much that he's almost underrated.

[luvtheteam]

Vernon's contract is a huge anchor around the neck of this team. I'm not convinced they can win with him in the outfield. A sort of complacency has plagued him over the years and i don't know if the fire is burning there to really want to win. It's a mystery to me why he's faded as much as he has this year after such a promising start.

I don't know if you could move him by packing him up with a prize prospect or two. And maybe you even take on some of his salary as well, but something to consider. For example, bring back Buck and maybe package Vernon with Arencibia and Stewart, for example. Painful to give up these prospects for sure, but if it gets someone to take the goliath of a salary, i think you've got to look at it. JMO.

[evilRyu]

I don't know if you could move him by packing him up with a prize prospect or two. And maybe you even take on some of his salary as well, but something to consider. For example, bring back Buck and maybe package Vernon with Arencibia and Stewart, for example. Painful to give up these prospects for sure, but if it gets someone to take the goliath of a salary, i think you've got to look at it. JMO.

it's not like Vernon is blocking a prospect from playing in CF (like the Torri Hunter and Peter Bourjos situation). I'm definitely not willing to package the Jays top prospects just to move him. Let him play and even mentor Gose when he comes up.

[evilRyu]

Well, it largely owes to the fact that we haven't really had any career Jays...

Agreed, we need more players to play 10+ seasons with the team.

[evilRyu]

I think that we're way to hard on Vernon. Yes he's overpaid, but when it's all said and done he's going to be right there with Doc as the best Blue Jay yet.

I don't know about that.. Vernon was hardly the best player on his own team for all these years

[victor page]

Interesting ... I agree that he's crapped on so much that he's become under-rated. I love when that happens.

He still plays what appears to be an above average centerfield - his range seems to be good (used to be very good, but I'm still ok with it). In fact, he looks like he'll be capable of playing CF for another 2-3 years. When he signed that contract, I was convinced he'd end up at first base or DH with a few years to go on his deal.

He's the fastest guy with a pot belly since Kirby Puckett, that's for sure.

There's no doubt he kills the team hitting the way he has since June 1 at the cleanup spot. But if we had mashers at first, DH, LF and RF, Vern's bat in the 7 or 8 hole would be just fine. Is it Vern's fault that Overbay sucks, Lind forgot how to hit, and Snider hasn't figure it out yet?

Is it his fault that he was given a fat contract for a longer term than he would have received on the free market at the time? No we have to thank that bug eyed loon Paul Godfrey for that.

[The_Hater]

I think that we're way to hard on Vernon. Yes he's overpaid, but when it's all said and done he's going to be right there with Doc as the best Blue Jay yet.

He's given us a high level of production for a long time. He hasn't been the league MVP that we hoped for, but he may see 5 all star games and 3-4 gold gloves. He's been bashed about being overpaid so much that he's almost underrated.

It's not that he's just overpaid, he's grossly overpaid with one of the 2-3 worst contracts in all of baseball. He's currently a Jay only be default because his contract makes him virtually untradeable.

And as for the Gold Gloves, they definitely weren't all deserved and he's been one of the absolute worst defensive CF's in baseball the past 2 seasons because his range has slowed to a crawl. He should be playing RF not CF at this point in his career. And if you look at his offense season by season, he's had perhaps 2 all-star caliber seasons in his career. It's not like he's Manny Ramirez in Boston, grossly overpaid but still an elite hitter. Vernon has never been an elite hitter for even a single season during his career.

So does Vernon deserve to be ridiculed because of his level of play in relation to his contract? Absolutely. The gap between his salary had his level of play remains massive and worse yet, the contract isn't even close to ending. Is it his fault that the Jays decided to pay him that type of money? Of course not. Is he still a nice guy and solid teammate? By all accounts. But that doesn't mean that AA wouldn't trade him the absolutely first chance he gets.

[Schad]

I wouldn't ridicule him, as it isn't Wells' fault that our management decided to throw a ridiculous amount of money his way. His defense has rebounded this year (in part because he doesn't look to be as fat as the last couple seasons) to the point where he's actually an above-average center fielder by WAR for the first time since 2007...certainly not enough of an uptick in performance to allow us to move him, but enough that he's only a burden when it comes time to write the cheques.

[tecumseh18]

And as for the Gold Gloves, they definitely weren't all deserved and he's been one of the absolute worst defensive CF's in baseball the past 2 seasons because his range has slowed to a crawl. He should be playing RF not CF at this point in his career.

One aspect of the tragedy is that we had Rios all primed and ready to slide over to CF. Then something happened.

Hope Gose works out.

[The_Hater]

I wouldn't ridicule him, as it isn't Wells' fault that our management decided to throw a ridiculous amount of money his way. His defense has rebounded this year (in part because he doesn't look to be as fat as the last couple seasons) to the point where he's actually an above-average center fielder by WAR for the first time since 2007...certainly not enough of an uptick in performance to allow us to move him, but enough that he's only a burden when it comes time to write the cheques.

Thanks for the info on his 2010 defense.

Even if he is slightly above average this year as you stated, stat based GM's will still look at his terrible numbers from 2008-09 and see a diminishing CF who needs to be playing a corner spot. And all that of course will make him even tougher to move going forward.

[Schad]

Thanks for the info on his 2010 defense.

Even if he is slightly above average this year as you stated, stat based GM's will still look at his terrible numbers from 2008-09 and see a diminishing CF who needs to be playing a corner spot. And all that of course will make him even tougher to move going forward.

No doubt; even if he was a consistent 4 WAR guy, he'd be nearly impossible to move at his age and with his contract. We're stuck with him, but that doesn't necessarily make him a terrible player. Except for last year, when he was replacement-level.

[The_Hater]

Thanks for the info on his 2010 defense.

Even if he is slightly above average this year as you stated, stat based GM's will still look at his terrible numbers from 2008-09 and see a diminishing CF who needs to be playing a corner spot. And all that of course will make him even tougher to move going forward.

No doubt; even if he was a consistent 4 WAR guy, he'd be nearly impossible to move at his age and with his contract. We're stuck with him, but that doesn't necessarily make him a terrible player. Except for last year, when he was replacement-level.

He's definitely not terrible. Hell, if we just average out the salaries of Wells, Bautista and Buck then we've got 3 relative bargains on our hand this season!

I still remember that JP had a chance to grab young prospects Matt Kemp and Chad Billingsly from the Dodgers is a deal for Vernon a full year before he was a free-agent. He was coming off a strong season and his trade value was never going to be higher. Assuming that Rogers didn't stick their nose into the decision to keep him, that just makes a bad mistake, crippling.

[ItsDanger]

His offensive #'s over his career have been ordinary IMO. Those totals arent really that impressive either.

[Boner Champ]

Assuming his numbers & defence don't deteriorate too much in the next couple of years, and also assuming the Jays would be willing to swallow a large chunk of his remaining salary, does he actually become tradeable (for negligible value) in his second-last contract year? Or are we stuck with him until his expiring year?

[Schad]

Assuming his numbers & defence don't deteriorate too much in the next couple of years, and also assuming the Jays would be willing to swallow a large chunk of his remaining salary, does he actually become tradeable (for negligible value) in his second-last contract year? Or are we stuck with him until his expiring year?

Probably stuck with him 'til the bitter end...we'd have to assume $30m+ (probably closer to $35m) of his contract to find a taker in 2013, because a 34 year old Wells isn't going to have much value. His rebound this year notwithstanding, he isn't going to be merely bad in center by that time.

[Boner Champ]

Man that's depressing.

Our rebuild would be so much easier without that albatross.

One more reason to despise JP. I know it was Godfrey's call, but like in all business decisions you have to fault the man who signed him to the contract - JP either agreed to the signing or he was unable to stand up to his boss for the good of the club.

[number15]

No point in trying to package him with prospects like Arencibia/Stewert.......... JAYSs dont have any top notch talent approaching a big pay day (except Bautista), so Well's salary is bareable for a couple of seasons

plus his repacment, Anthony Gose will take 2-3 season to be ready.... just when Well's expires

............. also by then bautista will be entering his 2nd year of the new contract..... just back load it