Does AA Regret Giving up Tim Collins in the Escobar Deal?

Wally West · Post #1 » by **Wally West** » Thu May 12, 2011 10:18 pm

We all remember the deal that sent Alex Gonzalez and two minor league prospects last year for Yunel Escobar and Jo-Jo Reyes. Those two minor league prospects were Tim Collins who's now on the Kansas City Royals and Tyler Pastornicky. Originally scouted by former general manager J. P. Ricciardi, he was discovered after he was pitching in an American Legion Baseball game. Now currently on the surging Kansas City Royals after he was dealt again this past offseason, he's currently the setup reliever for Joakim Soria and he's 2nd in the MLB right now in K's by a relief pitcher with 25 only behind Tyler Clippard down in Washington. He's always been a strikeout pitcher but has been overlooked because of his size which is listed at a generous 5'7. If Anthopolous knew what he knew back then, would he have dealt Tim Collins or not??

Post #2 » by **Schad** » Thu May 12, 2011 10:34 pm

He shouldn't regret it, as his inclusion was likely necessary to get Escobar.

And as much as I love Collins, he hasn't exactly proven that he can stick in the bigs long-term. His strikeout rate is very good, but his walk rate has jumped and he gives up a fair number of fly balls. And if he does become a proven reliever, it's still a good deal.

Hoopstarr · Post #3 » by **Hoopstarr** » Thu May 12, 2011 10:48 pm

Even saying "jumped" is putting it lightly. 17 walks in 21 IP. He's also probably being used way too much at 21 appearances already. He never really had wild splits in the minors but his OPS-against lefties so far is 440 points higher than against righties. That's the wrong kind of split to have as a reliever. If anyone has a chance to tarnish that steal of a trade, it's probably Pastor Nicky. He's doing a pretty solid job in AA for the Braves, still at SS, and even showing he has some pop after that being his major weakness as prospect early on. He still doesn't project to be more than a solid utility MI, though.

luenell · Post #4 » by **luenell** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:26 pm

Isn't he basically what everyone thought he was? A serviceable relief man

Hoopstarr · Post #5 » by **Hoopstarr** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:55 pm

Oh yea, he's got a legit major league skill and could be a great reliever. It's just that getting a legit two-way SS back is way way better.

Michael Bradley · Post #6 » by **Michael Bradley** » Fri May 13, 2011 12:46 am

Nothing about that trade is regrettable. The Jays got the best two-way SS they have had since Tony Fernandez and all it took to get him was an overachieving veteran and two unspectacular prospects. I know lot of people fall in love with prospects, and I can be guilty of that as well, but there is no justifiable reason to overhype guys like Collins and Chavez if you are getting back players the calibre of Escobar and Morrow. More risky trades are Wallace/Gose type deals where you don't really know what you are getting.

Post #7 » by **Schad** » Fri May 13, 2011 12:53 am

Michael Bradley wrote:Nothing about that trade is regrettable. The Jays got the best two-way SS they have had since Tony Fernandez and all it took to get him was an overachieving veteran and two unspectacular prospects. I know lot of people fall in love with prospects, and I can be guilty of that as well, but there is no justifiable reason to overhype guys like Collins and Chavez if you are getting back players the calibre of Escobar and Morrow. More risky trades are Wallace/Gose type deals where you don't really know what you are getting.

Agreed, and while I'm as into the prospect porn as anyone, this is why you accumulate prospects. The very good ones will graduate to the big league club and become irreplaceable, but the value of those mid-range guys lies in the fact that they can often be used to sweeten deals in which core players are acquired.

Post #8 » by **darth_federer** » Fri May 13, 2011 12:59 am

On a similar note, Brett Wallace is doing really well in Houston. Good for him.

Avenger · Post #9 » by **Avenger** » Fri May 13, 2011 1:10 am

Brett Wallace is falling back down to earth in a hurry. The lack of power is a serious concern, he has to continue to put up high walk rates and relatively low K rates(for him) to be even an average first basemen and neither of those things are a guarantee with him. Once his BABIP settles down, people will see him for what he really is, a Lyle Overbay with fewer doubles and one who who can't play defence.

number15 · Post #10 » by **number15** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:38 am

You cant have Jo-Jo Reyes without giving Tim Collin....... u want some, u gotta give some

............. Jo-Jo Reyes :-?

Macho · Post #11 » by **Macho** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:44 am

Wallace looked good in the 2 games I've seen, I think he'll have a solid career.

evilRyu · Post #12 » by **evilRyu** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:53 am

number15 wrote:You cant have Jo-Jo Reyes without giving Tim Collin....... u want some, u gotta give some

............. Jo-Jo Reyes

so wait...... we could have kept Tim Collins if Jojo Reyes wasn't involved in the deal?

Wally West · Post #13 » by **Wally West** » Fri May 13, 2011 5:05 am

evilRyu wrote:
number15 wrote:You cant have Jo-Jo Reyes without giving Tim Collin....... u want some, u gotta give some

............. Jo-Jo Reyes

so wait...... we could have kept Tim Collins if Jojo Reyes wasn't involved in the deal?

I'd be pissed if we could've kept Tim Collins without acquiring Jo-Jo Reyes. What does our organization see in Jo-Jo anyways ?? What type of potential does he even possess ?

DonYon · Post #14 » by **DonYon** » Fri May 13, 2011 7:15 am

blackflash234 wrote:
evilRyu wrote:
number15 wrote:You cant have Jo-Jo Reyes without giving Tim Collin....... u want some, u gotta give some

............. Jo-Jo Reyes

so wait...... we could have kept Tim Collins if Jojo Reyes wasn't involved in the deal?

I'd be pissed if we could've kept Tim Collins without acquiring Jo-Jo Reyes. What does our organization see in Jo-Jo anyways ?? What type of potential does he even possess ?

one scenario couldn't been that the braves initially suggested a 3 for 1 deal but the jays thought they could squeeze more value out, so they asked for JJR to be included. He's a lefty that can throw 4 average pitches which does carry some value in itself, although nowadays he's definitely proving with each start that he's just not a guy meant to pitch in the majors.

satyr9 · Post #15 » by **satyr9** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:05 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:
Michael Bradley wrote:Nothing about that trade is regrettable. The Jays got the best two-way SS they have had since Tony Fernandez and all it took to get him was an overachieving veteran and two unspectacular prospects. I know lot of people fall in love with prospects, and I can be guilty of that as well, but there is no justifiable reason to overhype guys like Collins and Chavez if you are getting back players the calibre of Escobar and Morrow. More risky trades are Wallace/Gose type deals where you don't really know what you are getting.

Agreed, and while I'm as into the prospect porn as anyone, this is why you accumulate prospects. The very good ones will graduate to the big league club and become irreplaceable, but the value of those mid-range guys lies in the fact that they can often be used to sweeten deals in which core players are acquired.

+lots.

I'd say on this board I'm as prone to wanting more prospects (MOAH PROSPEKTZ!!!!) for the farm than most, but as great as it is developing them I want them there for exactly the reasons outlined above. I just don't like the position a team like MIL finds themselves in where they empty it out. To me you build it up to almost overflowing so you can make deals and still have all the pieces around in case someone previously untouchable becomes available and you try to always have that much lying around. I'm fine overhyping the yungins though.