D'Arnaud vs Arencebia [long term]

[Relentless88]

How would you guys feel about JP DH'ing?

Not good at all. He has little value outside of catcher. .280 OBP and .720 OPS are not the kind of numbers you want from your DH. That's way below average.

[Wally West]

I wonder how Brett Lawrie will feel about a trade of Arencibia when he's a star in a few years at 3B..

[CPT]

Yeh I'm leaning towards D'Arnaud pretty heavily too.... like i said he is the type of guy u want with a solid rotation. D'Arnaud is the best "pure" catching prospect in the AL EAST by a mile and one of the tops in the MLB.

However, I also think Arencibia is gonna have a successful long career as a starting catcher in the MLB..... i honestly take him over Jesus Montero, and that guy is suppose to be a BIG time prospect according to hype. Yet, Jays will not get nearly as much for JP in a trade compared to what the Yankees can field for Montero.

I think Montero's value is tied to him being a DH. He's a good enough hitter to make a career at that spot. Arencibia isn't, and isn't a good enough fielder to close the gap.

As strictly catcher prospects, JPA is probably better, but in the roles they are likely to play, it's Montero.

[Parataxis]

Is there any reason we can't have both of them? They're both still young, cheap, and controlable - give each of them two or three pitchers, plus strategic substitutions and we're golden.

[-MetA4-]

However, I also think Arencibia is gonna have a successful long career as a starting catcher in the MLB..... i honestly take him over Jesus Montero, and that guy is suppose to be a BIG time prospect according to hype.

Take him over Montero how? You're talking about one crappy defensive catcher, and an even worse defensive catcher....the difference being that Montero is 5 times the hitter Arencibia is. I'd rather have Montero playing DH/1B than Arencibia playing C...without even thinking twice.

[number15]

However, I also think Arencibia is gonna have a successful long career as a starting catcher in the MLB..... i honestly take him over Jesus Montero, and that guy is suppose to be a BIG time prospect according to hype.

Take him over Montero how? You're talking about one crappy defensive catcher, and an even worse defensive catcher....the difference being that Montero is 5 times the hitter Arencibia is. I'd rather have Montero playing DH/1B than Arencibia playing C...without even thinking twice.

Yes i would take Montero, "now", becuase as u stated he can play DH and 1B, which is a weakness on the Jays with cause young prospect in the system has shown to run away with them...... Arencibia is expendable cause he is not better than D'Arnaud at catching.

However...... if the Jays did not have D'Arnaud in the system. I would say "Hell No" to the Yankees, "if" they offered ofcourse, which they wont cause of Montero's hype.

[WpgPage]

Then you are clearly ether overvaluing JPA's hit tool or undervaluing Montero's. Jesus has an excellent change to be a career +850 OPS hitter JPA will be luck to get to .800 in his best years.

[flatjacket1]

Is there any reason we can't have both of them? They're both still young, cheap, and controlable - give each of them two or three pitchers, plus strategic substitutions and we're golden.

I agree... You can easily get JP and Travis D 100 games each, as long as JP learns first or DHs some.

A decision will need to be made eventually, but now is too early.

[Fairview4Life]

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/artic ... -the-dust/

JPA was the 4th worst catcher at blocking "passed pitches" between 2008-11 (minimum 5000 chances).

[Anatomize]

It's not like we hadn't had power hitting catchers before.. Barajas belted 19 in only a 125 games.. John buck had 20 in a 118 games.. we still didn't go to the postseason. Having a guy who can hit and also be a gold glover defensively is much more appealing.

I'm really pissed that we let Napoli go. When I heard we traded for him I was ecstatic I can't believe we just let him walk to the Rangers like that for a crap pitcher... this should be talked about more often considering how good Napoli's season was. I'm sure some guys here can bring up some contract/money issues related to this, and I'm not too good with that type of thing, but I do know that we could have used him.

I also don't know about Arencibia's underrated defense.. I saw him botch a lot of low pitches/pitches in the dirt, he doesn't block it very well, he also throws erratically to second base to catch base stealers because he doesn't even bother to get up quick and make the throw, he tries to throw from his knees every time and it's more often than not off target.

^ Fairview, that's interesting, I didn't see your post until after I wrote this, so this pretty much confirms that I was right in what I observed.

[silverhill27]

Is there any reason we can't have both of them? They're both still young, cheap, and controlable - give each of them two or three pitchers, plus strategic substitutions and we're golden.

I agree... You can easily get JP and Travis D 100 games each, as long as JP learns first or DHs some.

A decision will need to be made eventually, but now is too early.

Completely agree, no reason why JP can't DH against lefties. Also D'Arnaud has only played at top prospect level for 1 year and is an injury concern. No reason to rush judgment.

[kwamebargnani]

Is there any reason we can't have both of them? They're both still young, cheap, and controlable - give each of them two or three pitchers, plus strategic substitutions and we're golden.

I agree... You can easily get JP and Travis D 100 games each, as long as JP learns first or DHs some.

A decision will need to be made eventually, but now is too early.

Not this again. If you have JP DHing bunch of games, then your team isn't that good. It's either one of JP or d'Arnaud, and unless d'Arnaud flops big time, it's him.

[Randle McMurphy]

If D'Arnaud performs at the MLB level, you're certainly not going to keep JPA to DH. Apart from the fact that he's not that good of a hitter, he would simply have far more value to the Jays in trade.

[flatjacket1]

Is there any reason we can't have both of them? They're both still young, cheap, and controlable - give each of them two or three pitchers, plus strategic substitutions and we're golden.

I agree... You can easily get JP and Travis D 100 games each, as long as JP learns first or DHs some.

A decision will need to be made eventually, but now is too early.

Not this again. If you have JP DHing bunch of games, then your team isn't that good. It's either one of JP or d'Arnaud, and unless d'Arnaud flops big time, it's him.

I never meant a bunch, I meant if he split time C and some DH. 81 games a piece at catcher (Unless there are injuries) and extra games will come up as DH. That's only 19 games as DH for JPA. He played 4 games at DH last year.

People don't want players to split time with fan favorites then rage at AA when he trades away the more talented of the two (see Napoli). I think Cooper and D'Arnaud need some at bats in the majors before you trade away Lind or JPA.

[kwamebargnani]

I never meant a bunch, I meant if he split time C and some DH. 81 games a piece at catcher (Unless there are injuries) and extra games will come up as DH. That's only 19 games as DH for JPA. He played 4 games at DH last year.

People don't want players to split time with fan favorites then rage at AA when he trades away the more talented of the two (see Napoli). I think Cooper and D'Arnaud need some at bats in the majors before you trade away Lind or JPA.

That's a great way to develop a catcher. 80 games a year.

[flatjacket1]

I never meant a bunch, I meant if he split time C and some DH. 81 games a piece at catcher (Unless there are injuries) and extra games will come up as DH. That's only 19 games as DH for JPA. He played 4 games at DH last year.

People don't want players to split time with fan favorites then rage at AA when he trades away the more talented of the two (see Napoli). I think Cooper and D'Arnaud need some at bats in the majors before you trade away Lind or JPA.

That's a great way to develop a catcher. 80 games a year.

Fine lets trade him away without looking at him. That worked out great for Milwaukee with Brett Lawrie. I'm talking about a 1 year split where they each play 100 games with 81 being behind the plate. That way, you can tell who to keep. Either that or take a huge gamble.

[baulderdash77]

The one thing with JPA is that I think he's the leader of the clubhouse. Just like Varitek was the leader of the Boston teams in the last decade, I think JPA is that guy for us. I'm not saying that D'Arnaud isn't a good clubhouse guy but I'm not sure he's the team captain.

I would prefer D'Arnaud because I think he's more rounded, but I have to go with JPA because of his leadership.

[kwamebargnani]

I never meant a bunch, I meant if he split time C and some DH. 81 games a piece at catcher (Unless there are injuries) and extra games will come up as DH. That's only 19 games as DH for JPA. He played 4 games at DH last year.

People don't want players to split time with fan favorites then rage at AA when he trades away the more talented of the two (see Napoli). I think Cooper and D'Arnaud need some at bats in the majors before you trade away Lind or JPA.

That's a great way to develop a catcher. 80 games a year.

Fine lets trade him away without looking at him. That worked out great for Milwaukee with Brett Lawrie. I'm talking about a 1 year split where they each play 100 games with 81 being behind the plate. That way, you can tell who to keep. Either that or take a huge gamble.

Nope. I never said trade d'Arnaud away. Trade JP. AA doesn't have to lower his value by jerking him around.

[flatjacket1]

Nope. I never said trade d'Arnaud away. Trade JP. AA doesn't have to lower his value by jerking him around.

I voted D'Arnaud to be our catcher long term but still what if D'Arnaud bombs?