Attendance in the AL East

[whysoserious]

Even when that fair-weather attitude is keeping our attendance down, sapping enthusiasm, and costing us additional revenue that could go toward the payroll?

Obviously, he alone is not responsible for all that, but, as a lot, the fair-weather fans have some nerve to demand a winner when they don't purchase much.

As for myself... take me out to the ballgame, take me out the crowd...

I've been to a couple of games already, sneaking in peanuts and cracker jack each and every time. This is a culture as much as it is a sport.

We shouldn't sanction the shut-ins and hope they turn out when we start winning. Support the team.

You also can't reprimand them for not coming out and blaming Rogers not spending money on the fact that fans don't come out. Everyone is a different type of fan, what makes you better than anyone else just because you enjoy they pure game more than others? That's fine and great for you but not everyone is the same.

I feel that way about basketball and the Raptors, I enjoy the game of basketball, the typical atmosphere at a basketball game and will support the Raptors up or down.

But baseball's different for me, I'm a fan of the Jays, because I choose to watch at home as opposed to the arena until I see value in going to the stadium doesn't make me less of a fan, just different.

Why is it that in other lines of business, you make products to drive your sales up, but in sports the excuse is we will spend money to build a better product once we see our customers spend the money and come to the arena/stadium?

[Drake_02]

Don't get me wrong, I want to go out to the ball park but who doesn't want to see the Blue Jays win? Really, I can just watch the game on TV, in the comfort of my home. Why go out and spend that money? Do you really want to go out to, say, 10 games and the Jays lose 7 of them? I don't, so until they prove they can win 7 out of those 10 games I won't be going.

[satyr9]

Don't get me wrong, I want to go out to the ball park but who doesn't want to see the Blue Jays win? Really, I can just watch the game on TV, in the comfort of my home. Why go out and spend that money? Do you really want to go out to, say, 10 games and the Jays lose 7 of them? I don't, so until they prove they can win 7 out of those 10 games I won't be going.

7 out of 10 pace is a 114 win season. You're going to wait a while if that's what you're waiting for.

That being said, I have no problem with fairweather, casual, bandwago, or whatever else they might be called fans. Watch sports however you damn well please. Nothing is owed a sports franchise by its fans. Sure I'd like to have 4m crazies at the ballpark subsidizing my team, but I can't fault anyone for not doing it.

I will say waiting for a winner if you're talking about going to 1-10 home games is not a great argument IMO. A good team vs. a bad team is basically a 10% change, so you go from 4-5 wins per 10 to 5-6 wins per 10. If 1 extra win every 10 games is what totally changes your desire to go the ballpark, you're a far bigger stats nerd than I.

[J-Roc]

I heard some talk on the radio about whether people would show up to see Yu Darvish pitch. It got me thinking, does anyone ever go out to "see" a pitcher pitch? When I'd go to a Clemens or Halladay game it was more about knowing the team had a better chance of winning, not about "seeing" them pitch, because from the stands you can't really "see" anything.

[Drake_02]

I heard some talk on the radio about whether people would show up to see Yu Darvish pitch. It got me thinking, does anyone ever go out to "see" a pitcher pitch? When I'd go to a Clemens or Halladay game it was more about knowing the team had a better chance of winning, not about "seeing" them pitch, because from the stands you can't really "see" anything.

That's how I feel. I want to see a winner. I don't want to see them lose, I wan to see them win.

[Hamyltowne]

I heard some talk on the radio about whether people would show up to see Yu Darvish pitch. It got me thinking, does anyone ever go out to "see" a pitcher pitch? When I'd go to a Clemens or Halladay game it was more about knowing the team had a better chance of winning, not about "seeing" them pitch, because from the stands you can't really "see" anything.

In the US, it's well known that the marquee pitchers draw big crowds.

[J-Roc]

I heard some talk on the radio about whether people would show up to see Yu Darvish pitch. It got me thinking, does anyone ever go out to "see" a pitcher pitch? When I'd go to a Clemens or Halladay game it was more about knowing the team had a better chance of winning, not about "seeing" them pitch, because from the stands you can't really "see" anything.

In the US, it's well known that the marquee pitchers draw big crowds.

Even on the road? That would suggest people want to "see" a pitcher, and not just want to see their team win.

[Hamyltowne]

I heard some talk on the radio about whether people would show up to see Yu Darvish pitch. It got me thinking, does anyone ever go out to "see" a pitcher pitch? When I'd go to a Clemens or Halladay game it was more about knowing the team had a better chance of winning, not about "seeing" them pitch, because from the stands you can't really "see" anything.

In the US, it's well known that the marquee pitchers draw big crowds.

Even on the road? That would suggest people want to "see" a pitcher, and not just want to see their team win.

Yes. Justin Verlander, for example.

[Attonitus]

I heard some talk on the radio about whether people would show up to see Yu Darvish pitch. It got me thinking, does anyone ever go out to "see" a pitcher pitch? When I'd go to a Clemens or Halladay game it was more about knowing the team had a better chance of winning, not about "seeing" them pitch, because from the stands you can't really "see" anything.

In the US, it's well known that the marquee pitchers draw big crowds.

Even on the road? That would suggest people want to "see" a pitcher, and not just want to see their team win.

I think good matchups are going to draw at all ballparks, if for nothing else casual fans can say they saw such and such, but since the Jays have been so middle of the pack over the years pitching matchups became more important criteria for casual Jays fans going to games than the possibility of victory. After Doc there were no games you were all that confident they could win so you might as well see a good opposing pitcher.

I want to see the marquee pitchers and I want to "see" them get shelled by the jays

[NeverGoingToWin]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagu ... ance.shtml

Jays attendance is up 4,643 and the Rays attendance is up 3,872.

[wbbfan]

The fans are the bedrock of an organization. If your foundation is shifty and loose, your organization will never be strong and stable. You support the team, win or lose because they are your team. Thats what a fan does. If you cant get excited to go out and watch this group of fast rising young players go out and play there butts off for the jays then your just not a fan.

[whysoserious]

The fans are the bedrock of an organization. If your foundation is shifty and loose, your organization will never be strong and stable. You support the team, win or lose because they are your team. Thats what a fan does. If you cant get excited to go out and watch this group of fast rising young players go out and play there butts off for the jays then your just not a fan.

That's straight BS. There is no one way to be a fan. If you want to go spend money on the team and watch it live, that's fine but it doesn't mean that someone that doesn't go to the ballpark isn't a fan either.

There's varying degrees of commitments to teams. I'm a fan of the Jays, haven't been to a game yet this year. Went to my first Jays game in 15 years last year. But my entertainment dollars are limited and I have to pick and choose where I spend my dollars. And I'm not even at the point of having kids or a family to take care of. If I had to pay for a family of three or four to go to a game, it's not gonna be consistent that my money would go to the Jays. Doesn't make me less of a fan than any other. Heck there are tons of people that go to Jays games now that go just because it seems to be the rising cool thing to do right now. W

[baulderdash77]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/current_attendance.shtml

Jays attendance is up 4,643 and the Rays attendance is up 3,872.

So attendance is tracking to be up 350k-400k from last year and TV ratings are up significantly too.

What should then follow under the "fans pay and then we'll pay" screwed up doctrine is that the team should be spending a lot more next season in team salary.

[flatjacket1]

I've read articles that claim our attendance won't rise even if we are a winner.

Whether or not I believe that is irrelevant, but some people think we are TB.

[wbbfan]

The fans are the bedrock of an organization. If your foundation is shifty and loose, your organization will never be strong and stable. You support the team, win or lose because they are your team. Thats what a fan does. If you cant get excited to go out and watch this group of fast rising young players go out and play there butts off for the jays then your just not a fan.

That's straight BS. There is no one way to be a fan. If you want to go spend money on the team and watch it live, that's fine but it doesn't mean that someone that doesn't go to the ballpark isn't a fan either.

There's varying degrees of commitments to teams. I'm a fan of the Jays, haven't been to a game yet this year. Went to my first Jays game in 15 years last year. But my entertainment dollars are limited and I have to pick and choose where I spend my dollars. And I'm not even at the point of having kids or a family to take care of. If I had to pay for a family of three or four to go to a game, it's not gonna be consistent that my money would go to the Jays. Doesn't make me less of a fan than any other. Heck there are tons of people that go to Jays games now that go just because it seems to be the rising cool thing to do right now. W

Being a fan is supporting your team. If your the type that only comes out for a contender or to see an opposing pitcher or player your occasional gate surplus. Following a team and being a Fanatic a team supported are different. And at the end of the day the supporter and the gate surplus are the same thing to the team. This market has such a horrible sense of entitlement over all, if it isnt a contender in 5 years it will be a miracle if its still in TO.

[Waylon Mercy]

Leafs have about 18-19k die hard fans raptors have about 14-15k die hard fans and jays manage to get about 15k die hard fans on average a game. I think winning will start to fill the seats out, probably did not help that we got beat up by the Tampa and Baltimore on our home stands for the most part. I have already been to two games this year will be going to a few more this year but thats if they keep things interesting!

Despite Hockey being ingrained in our culture and the Leafs being around for a zillion years its
embarrassing how many fans they have and the support they get despite their on ice product
and ticket prices. Then on the flip side you see the lack of support for the Blue Jays and
it just feeds to the stereotype that were just a bunch of incompetent puckheads.

[Lucky 24]

The fans are the bedrock of an organization. If your foundation is shifty and loose, your organization will never be strong and stable. You support the team, win or lose because they are your team. Thats what a fan does. If you cant get excited to go out and watch this group of fast rising young players go out and play there butts off for the jays then your just not a fan.

Loyalty has a lot to do with trust. For years, fans were sold on unrealistic hopes of taking shortcuts to success through the J.P. era and that trust was shattered and the fans are taking a wait and see approach but are enthusiasm is really starting to show through this year. Attendance is up 60% this year compared to the same point 2 seasons ago. Success in attendance builds gradually...it is virtually impossible to have huge leaps in attendance without something to captivate the city with (i.e. new stadium, successful playoff run etc).

In terms of the blind loyalty, I believe fans should support the team win or loss as long as the ownership and managements shows that they have a plan and direction to LONG TERM success like AA has shown. The problem with fan loyalty happens when you have organizations such as the MLSE/Chicago Cubs where the bottom line is making money and they have little pressure to build a winning team as they are highly profitable. This is a scenario where it stupid to support a team that has absolutely no legitimate plan to build long-term success. Toronto fans have shown they're a passionate bunch and will support any major franchise in this city if they can see a clear plan towards winning, and I'm sure you'll see the YoY jays attendance numbers continue to rise as we become more consistently successful.

In baseball, probably more than any other sport, attendance is cyclical for all teams due to number of games in a season. The Yankees, Cubs and Red Sox who are known for great attendance right now have all had long periods of poor attendance when their teams fall into long period of rebuilding. You couldn't even get a ticket to see a cleveland indians game from 1995 to 2001, but now they are pretty much dead last in the league with a first place team. When the Yankees won the world series first world series in 18 years in 1996, they only averaged 28,136/game that year. It wasn't until they started winning consistently did attendance start gradually rising since that WS title. It makes you wonder why there is much pressure placed on Jays fans right now to have super-high attendance numbers when we really haven't won anything yet or even challenged for a playoff spot in 20 years. In many cities, the pressure would be placed on management to build a winner before expecting attendance to rise, but in Canada, there seems to be an expectation that fans need to show up first to encourage winning. I believe this may come from the fear that if we don't support our teams, they are going to move south like the Expos, Nordique and Jets. Just an example of how a "high supported team" such as the Yanks have fared in attendance shows that their fans really didn't start supporting the team consistently above 40000+/game until 2001.

Year Attend/G Rank
2012 41,201 2nd of 14
2011 45,107 1st of 14
2010 46,491 1st of 14
2009 45,918 1st of 14
2008 53,070 1st of 14
2007 52,729 1st of 14
2006 52,445 1st of 14
2005 50,502 1st of 14
2004 46,609 1st of 14
2003 42,263 1st of 14
2002 43,323 2nd of 14
2001 40,811 2nd of 14
2000 38,193 3rd of 14
1999 40,651 3rd of 14
1998 36,484 3rd of 14
1997 32,254 5th of 14
1996 28,136 7th of 14
1995 23,360 7th of 14
1994 29,396 6th of 14
1993 29,839 5th of 14
1992 21,589 11th of 14
1991 23,009 11th of 14
1990 24,771 9th of 14
1989 26,796 8th of 14
1988 32,921 2nd of 14
1987 29,971 3rd of 14
1986 28,350 4th of 14
1985 27,682 4th of 14
1984 22,492 6th of 14
1983 27,876 3rd of 14
1982 25,200 3rd of 14
1981 31,654 1st of 14
1980 32,437 1st of 14
1979 31,330 1st of 14
1978 28,838 1st of 14
1977 25,964 1st of 14
1976 25,155 1st of 12
1975 16,513 2nd of 12
1974 15,717 2nd of 12

[whysoserious]

Being a fan is supporting your team. If your the type that only comes out for a contender or to see an opposing pitcher or player your occasional gate surplus. Following a team and being a Fanatic a team supported are different. And at the end of the day the supporter and the gate surplus are the same thing to the team. This market has such a horrible sense of entitlement over all, if it isnt a contender in 5 years it will be a miracle if its still in TO.

Supporting a team can come in many different fashions. If I buy merchandise like a Jersey or a sweatshirt, that's still money going to the team even if I don't go to a game.

There's no sense of entitlement, in fact Toronto fans have too much loyalty to teams. What have the Jays done in 20 years to earn any loyalty from fans to keep shelling out money? Your hardcore fan base will come to games during up and down times. Those are hardcore baseball fans. But they aren't any more of a fan than someone that watches and follows the team and loves the Jays but chooses not to spend their money by going to a game. The economics of spending entertainment dollars on sporting events is actually on the downside and an organization needs to prove it's value to all types of fans. It can't be just simply you're fan of our team so come out. Give them value, build a winner/contender, entertain them when they're in the arena. Because otherwise, most people have nice 40-60 inch tv's that show the game in HD and doesn't cost nearly as much as trying to go down to SkyDome for a game.

But don't sit their on your pedestal saying one type of fan is better than the other, they simply aren't.

[satyr9]

If this attendance keeps up, that's absolutely a massive increase for a single season. Unless the upcoming Bal series sets a new low mark, the 11k min. up to 15k is pretty gigantic. As is 20k vs. 14k for day games. And the big games are bigger too. Last year after big crowds for 2 of the first 3 home games, the Jays didn't break 28k in a game until a weekend series against BOS in early June, this year they've already broken that mark against teams like BAL and SEA (granted during weekend day games).

IMO if we continue with nice weather, the Jays stay above .500 and right in a playoff race, the numbers are going to get even stronger and anecdotally, I have heard so many people talk about how they haven't seen th3 Jays in a long time and have to get to games this year, it's kind of freaking me out. That and brand new Jays caps. The logo switch was a well-timed and a very very very good idea.

IMO they're gonna break 2m fans for the season without breaking a sweat this year and IMO that bodes very well for how Rogers perceives the viability of this rebuild far more than how many games they end up back or not by the end of the year.

[Attonitus]

I've read articles that claim our attendance won't rise even if we are a winner.

Whether or not I believe that is irrelevant, but some people think we are TB.

What articles?? And who thinks we are like the Rays? I can't think of any indication that this is true. Jays fans have an excellent track record of supporting playoff bound teams, the Rays had to give away playoff tickets to get fans to show up, no comparison.