Dan Haren and Ervin Santana available!

number15 · Post #1 » by **number15** » Wed Oct 3, 2012 9:04 pm

realgm is reporting that the Angels will let both Dan Haren and Ervin Santana walk in an attempt to resign Zach Greinke........ this might sound surprising to you, but Dan Haren alone is better than Greinke and Santana is about equal to Greinke in stleat in my view.

both these guys just had bad seasons but both are proven long term. Best part is they will not get anywhere near their true value in Free Agency due to their 1 bad season.

I think the Jays should make a go after these guys. likely wont get both but, Haren, Santana, Marcum...... any 2 of these guys would complete a very good lineup combined with Morrow and Romero who also had a horrible year like these two guys, i expect him to rebound also.

I know risky to ask for 3 out of 5 guys in your lineup to rebound. so im suggesting 1 of these guys with Marcum would do it.

BigLeagueChew · Post #2 » by **BigLeagueChew** » Wed Oct 3, 2012 9:30 pm

Haren had a rough year but he can easily bounce back, hes also a horse, in that hes likely near 200 innings each year. He's exactly the type of pitcher we need.

Marcum would be a good #2-3 , I do worry about Marcum's durabilty though, not sure about Santana either.

Randle McMurphy · Post #3 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Wed Oct 3, 2012 9:36 pm

Haren isn't anywhere close to being as good as Greinke. He also had a poor year where his HR rate skyrocketed and his velocity declined. Because of that, he may end up costing more than he's worth. And Santana? If he gets tee'd off on in the AL West (1.97 HR/9 in 2012, 1.24 HR/9 in his career), I don't even want to imagine what he'd give up in the Dome.

This isn't to say that either pitcher wouldn't add some value to this team's empty rotation, but should they be the targets of the Jays this offseason? No...at least I seriously hope not.

CapeCrusader · Post #4 » by **CapeCrusader** » Wed Oct 3, 2012 9:36 pm

Haren would be perfect, but not a fan of Santana.

Wo1verine · Post #5 » by **Wo1verine** » Thu Oct 4, 2012 1:24 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:Haren isn't anywhere close to being as good as Greinke. He also had a poor year where his HR rate skyrocketed and his velocity declined. Because of that, he may end up costing more than he's worth. And Santana? If he gets tee'd off on in the AL West (1.97 HR/9 in 2012, 1.24 HR/9 in his career), I don't even want to imagine what he'd give up in the Dome.

This isn't to say that either pitcher wouldn't add some value to this team's empty rotation, but should they be the targets of the Jays this offseason? No...at least I seriously hope not.

Just curious - what SP you like them to target this winter?

rdtx2005 · Post #6 » by **rdtx2005** » Thu Oct 4, 2012 2:08 am

pitcher we should have gotten is the one pitching game 1 for texas... Yu Darvish

Skin Blues · Post #7 » by **Skin Blues** » Thu Oct 4, 2012 3:12 am

Yup. Darvish was a huge lost opportunity. Ervin Santana is garbage. Haren is good but will get too much money and too many years. Greinke is much better than either of them. And he's still young enough that the contract might not be god awful like most SP free agents.

satyr9 · Post #8 » by **satyr9** » Thu Oct 4, 2012 11:15 am

I don't think either is a great fit for the Jays, 'cause Randle's right about the HR ball, but I'd actually prefer a shot at Ervin. Haren to me is done. So many innings over so many years, he's burnt. It's possible he can pull a Hudson or a Hampton or Garcia (I'm sure there's better examples, just the guys that popped into my head) type deal where after all those innings they reinvent, but he's basically Francisco Cordero at this point in his career (less apt comparison, but more effective on a Jays fan

) and I don't want to have that argument again and then have to watch him.

Santana on the other hand is just wild. If you get him grooving, he's very good. Not as good as a prime Haren by any means, but that ship has sailed. Also, based on how bad he was this year he's going to be pretty cheap and rental available (although an expensive rental option as 1 year types go).

I was going to predict exactly how this board would discuss these two and what'll happen this offseason, but I don't want to put anything in anyone's head yet, although what I foresee for us around here in the next couple months is likely inevitable.

dballislife · Post #9 » by **dballislife** » Thu Oct 4, 2012 7:53 pm

hope we go after haren, peavy, and marcum

rdtx2005 · Post #10 » by **rdtx2005** » Fri Oct 5, 2012 10:09 pm

end it all and get King Felix

Ado05 · Post #11 » by **Ado05** » Tue Oct 9, 2012 3:56 pm

dballislife wrote:hope we go after haren, peavy, and marcum

I dont think we need Marcum. really, if I was AA, id be all over Haren, Peavy and Sanchez (if made available). Haren and Peavy both get deals around 2-3 years at 10-13 mill per. Sanchez gets a 3-4 year deal worth 8-10 mill per.

Mehar · Post #12 » by **Mehar** » Tue Oct 9, 2012 5:42 pm

Adrian_05 wrote:
dballislife wrote:hope we go after haren, peavy, and marcum

I dont think we need Marcum. really, if I was AA, id be all over Haren, Peavy and Sanchez (if made available). Haren and Peavy both get deals around 2-3 years at 10-13 mill per. Sanchez gets a 3-4 year deal worth 8-10 mill per.

Absolutely agree with you. Not interested in Marcum. Rather spend the money on two of the three guys you mentioned. Hopefully there are no excuses from AA on why they could not afford to spend the money on free agent pitching this offseason.

satyr9 · Post #13 » by **satyr9** » Tue Oct 9, 2012 6:09 pm

IMO if Haren is worth more than 10-11m, he won't be a FA as he'll be tradeable with LAA eating a bit of salary (preferable to go just 1 year give up a B- prospect, then multiple years on an 8-figure deal for a guy coming off that down a year). I think he's maxing out at 2/20 myself, but it's always folly to underestimate how fast GMs will spend their owners' money in the offseason.

Peavy is just a total no idea for me. I can't understand how any GM would want to invest core money on him at this point, but I'm fairly certain someone will. No idea what the range will be, but if I were a GM he'd be a strict 1 year deal type for the rest of his career. Maybe 2 if I was very confident about his arm health.

Sanchez on the other hand will get more like a 4/60 or 5/65 deal than the above estimate. He's at 3 straight years of 4WAR and really just eerily similar numbers (and way younger than semi-similar options that came up last year). He'll get paid off for those performances IMO. He's easily the catch that Buehrle was last offseason, even if MIA management is too dumb to see it. He's actually not even that far behind CJ and I might be 5m total light once you factor in the 23-25m per deals that have gone to pitchers since.

Not that I'd give him that much, but he's gonna get it.

As always, I'm for hanging out and seeing who's left holding the bag (like the Nats and Ejax last year). The problem with that strategy is you kind of need some leverage to say you can go without and I don't think too many agents will buy that coming out of AA's mouth this offseason.