OT: Clemens, Bonds and Sosa on the ballot

[SharoneWright]

]Uh...Bad comparison, since cycling actually had rules against doping.

OK.. so you'd induct Fannie and Freddie into the HOF of housing lenders because they also knew how to 'legally' game the system... very shrewd.

Near as I can tell, the Chicago Black Sox didn't break any existing MLB rule either - yet they're banned. They cheated to lose games. Our juicers cheated to win games.

Bonds et al. broke existing federal laws regarding controlled substances anyways... Felons shouldn't be allowed to vote, let alone be granted enshrinement in to Cooperstown.

[Randle McMurphy]

Or... dismiss the stats if they are illegitimate.

Which would make some sense if we knew who used PEDs, when they did, and what actual effect those PEDs had on the stats. But since we don't have the answer to any of those questions, that's a pretty absurd suggestion to make. And this isn't even getting into the fact that most of the current HOFers' stats are also presumably PED-supported through the standardized use of amphetamines over the last half century).

[UN-Owen]

Election to the HOF is an honour. Cheating is dishonourable.

If there were no steroid rules in place to break, how can it be considered cheating?

[Randle McMurphy]

None of them cheated.

Neither did this guy:


Wonder how he's doing these days...

Uh...Bad comparison, since cycling actually had rules against doping.

Lance Armstrong is a liar, seemingly a bit of an **** and needs to be honest about what happened at some point. But what I don't get is people getting upset about a cyclist using PEDs. The only way you can even get a sniff at winning anything in that sport is if you take something to improve your performance through such means. He wanted to win, so he took something like everyone else was doing. I don't blame him for it, nor do I understand the holier-than-thou types want to crucify him for it. The guy still was that much better than everyone else...his consecutive wins were an incredibly impressive feat.

The chief difference between what he did and these baseball players did, anyway, was that his taking PEDs was explicitly against the rules of the sport. And he's paying the price for that rule breaking now. There was no such rule in the sport of baseball until 2003.

[Randle McMurphy]

Bonds et al. broke existing federal laws regarding controlled substances anyways... Felons shouldn't be allowed to vote, let alone be granted enshrinement in to Cooperstown.

Hank Aaron and Willie Mays took illegal amphetamines. Throw em' all out, I say!

[TheseSicklyKeys]

- Regardless of PED use, there is no denying that these guys are some of the very most talented people to ever play the game.

- Their use of PEDs never actually broke any rules.

- There is already undoubtedly plenty of other people who have used PEDs inducted into the hall, and will be more in the future.

Given all that, they unarguably belong in the hall.

[The_Hater]

This debate is exactly why Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Ramirez and a few others will never get in. Half the people with ballots in their hands will just never, ever write their names down.

The one guy that should have gotten in last year but seems to be getting blackballed a bit on rumour and innuendo is Jeff Bagwell.

[Modern_epic]

- Their use of PEDs never actually broke any rules.

This is a bit of a fallacy, as I recall. PED use was banned at the time, it just wan't tested for. So yes, it broke rules. They just never got caught.

[UN-Owen]

- Their use of PEDs never actually broke any rules.

This is a bit of a fallacy, as I recall. PED use was banned at the time, it just wan't tested for. So yes, it broke rules. They just never got caught.

I'm pretty sure you're mistaken. There were no rules in place

However, steroids were/are illegal without the express written consent of Major League Baseball

[Parataxis]

They won't be going in... at all... ever. Baseball never forgives or forgets. Just ask Shoeloess Joe or Pumpkinhair Petey.

This is an entirely separate situation though. Rose wasn't even allowed on the ballot - the BBWAA never had the chance to vote him in or out.

Clemens et al will be on the ballot. They have 15 years for hearts to soften. By their last year of eligibility (and none of them will ever get less than 5%. If they don't get in, it'll be because they timed out) there will be eligible voters who only started writing a decade AFTER they retired - they'll hear of the greatness, but possibly not actively remember the controversy.

[darth_federer]

So if these guys arent making it does A-Rod not make it too? Or is A-Rod different because he apologized?

Manny I think is in tough because he got caught twice and whatever he took was illegal under the rules.

[Randle McMurphy]

So if these guys arent making it does A-Rod not make it too? Or is A-Rod different because he apologized?

Who knows with the holier-than-thou types. McGwire apologized and they didn't care about that, so I'm guessing ARod will be no different. It's a shame because he's the best SS/3B of all time.

Manny I think is in tough because he got caught twice and whatever he took was illegal under the rules.

Unless the rules state that breaking that rule means you can never make the HOF, I don't see why he shouldn't make it either. He already served his punishment(s) for that. Why tack on an additional one?

[distracted]

Who knows with the holier-than-thou types. McGwire apologized and they didn't care about that, so I'm guessing ARod will be no different. It's a shame because he's the best SS/3B of all time.

I'm almost positive ARod makes it in. Not because of any difference between him and the others, but simply because he'll still probably be on a ballot 25 years (or more) from now. Time heals all wounds.