Report: Anthopoulos returning to Jays next season

[dballislife]

hey AA some better pitching would be nice, dont we say this every year? our offense is good enough but the pitching isnt, get us some legit front of rotation stuff, did i mention we need better pitching

[RaptorJ]

The moves he's made haven't panned out, and management won't spend extra to get him out of his mess. He's been a failure as a GM based on the results of the team.

[RaptorJ]

hey AA some better pitching would be nice, dont we say this every year? our offense is good enough but the pitching isnt, get us some legit front of rotation stuff, did i mention we need better pitching

Buerhle - above average
Dickey - mediocre
Happ - mediocre/bad
Johnson - disaster

He's tried and failed miserably. What more can you say?

[Hoopstarr]

Even if he has been hamstrung by management to improve the team, his inability to find even decent lower end pitching is troubling. Look at what Theo did with the Cubs in short time on that front.

At this point, I think whether to keep or fire AA is besides the point. This organization has a development problem. AA came along and revamped the scouting, but the development is still seriously lacking. How many keepers have we graduated from the minors under his term? Hutch and Stroman?

[CrookedJ]

hey AA some better pitching would be nice, dont we say this every year? our offense is good enough but the pitching isnt, get us some legit front of rotation stuff, did i mention we need better pitching

Buerhle - above average
Dickey - mediocre
Happ - mediocre/bad
Johnson - disaster

He's tried and failed miserably. What more can you say?

Sadly it appears that the best pitcher involved in all the offseason deals we made in 2012 was Henderson Alvarez leaving.

[Moxie]

Even if he has been hamstrung by management to improve the team, his inability to find even decent lower end pitching is troubling. Look at what Theo did with the Cubs in short time on that front.

At this point, I think whether to keep or fire AA is besides the point. This organization has a development problem. AA came along and revamped the scouting, but the development is still seriously lacking. How many keepers have we graduated from the minors under his term? Hutch and Stroman?

Lawrie
Stroman
Hutch
Gomes
D'Arnaud
Alvarez
Marisnick

High school/younger players we've drafted/signed that have made significant progress (Sanchez, Norris, Syndergaard, Pompey, Osuna, Barreto etc.)

Plus, what about Bautista? What about Encarnacion? What about Janssen? Obviously there are examples that trend in the other direction as well (Romero, Arencibia etc.), but if we don't really understand how player development works, and we don't have definitive, empirical ways of measuring it, how can we know that we have a development problem when there's been a lot of evidence of major league and minor league success in the last several years?

[m83588333]

JPA got 500 PA batting under .200 Rasmus will get 400+ with an OBP under .300

AA problem is sticking with crap too long without a plan B. Other GM make mistakes but fail quickly. Every player on the field should have a replacement who can at least provide 1.0 WAR in the minors

[Hoopstarr]

Even if he has been hamstrung by management to improve the team, his inability to find even decent lower end pitching is troubling. Look at what Theo did with the Cubs in short time on that front.

At this point, I think whether to keep or fire AA is besides the point. This organization has a development problem. AA came along and revamped the scouting, but the development is still seriously lacking. How many keepers have we graduated from the minors under his term? Hutch and Stroman?

Lawrie
Stroman
Hutch
Gomes
D'Arnaud
Alvarez
Marisnick

High school/younger players we've drafted/signed that have made significant progress (Sanchez, Norris, Syndergaard, Pompey, Osuna, Barreto etc.)

Plus, what about Bautista? What about Encarnacion? What about Janssen? Obviously there are examples that trend in the other direction as well (Romero, Arencibia etc.), but if we don't really understand how player development works, and we don't have definitive, empirical ways of measuring it, how can we know that we have a development problem when there's been a lot of evidence of major league and minor league success in the last several years?

I asked about keepers because as we all know, there's no telling with young propsects, even ones that have seen time in the big leagues. Gomes and Alvarez broke out elsewhere and Syndergaard, D'Arnaud, and Marisnick will too if they do. My point is that even with the significant improvements in drafting, there isn't much to show for it compared to even JPR's first five years.

[BigLeagueChew]

My point is that even with the significant improvements in drafting, there isn't much to show for it compared to even JPR's first five years.

When AA took over we had Wells on contract @ $16,142,857/ $26.643/$24.643/$24.643/$24.643 until 2014 and a year left on BJ Ryan's deal @ 10 mill. Also our top prospect was Brett Wallace and we had to replenish the system , starting with the Halladay trade and somehow getting rid of Vernon Wells.

If another GM took over the team tomorrow, I think things look much better for the next GM then when AA replaced Ricciardi. Loads of players under team control and not a single long term contract that should really hurt the team.

Would also like to point out that we are just starting to see the players come through that AA has drafted.

[MikeM]

Even if he has been hamstrung by management to improve the team, his inability to find even decent lower end pitching is troubling. Look at what Theo did with the Cubs in short time on that front.

At this point, I think whether to keep or fire AA is besides the point. This organization has a development problem. AA came along and revamped the scouting, but the development is still seriously lacking. How many keepers have we graduated from the minors under his term? Hutch and Stroman?

Lawrie
Stroman
Hutch
Gomes
D'Arnaud
Alvarez
Marisnick

High school/younger players we've drafted/signed that have made significant progress (Sanchez, Norris, Syndergaard, Pompey, Osuna, Barreto etc.)

Plus, what about Bautista? What about Encarnacion? What about Janssen? Obviously there are examples that trend in the other direction as well (Romero, Arencibia etc.), but if we don't really understand how player development works, and we don't have definitive, empirical ways of measuring it, how can we know that we have a development problem when there's been a lot of evidence of major league and minor league success in the last several years?

I asked about keepers because as we all know, there's no telling with young propsects, even ones that have seen time in the big leagues. Gomes and Alvarez broke out elsewhere and Syndergaard, D'Arnaud, and Marisnick will too if they do. My point is that even with the significant improvements in drafting, there isn't much to show for it compared to even JPR's first five years.

All our draft picks are/were teenagers.

In 2 years our rotation will be Stroman-Sanchez-Norris-Hutchison-Hoffman/Nolin/Osuna/Graveman. All drafted by the organization.

[Michael Bradley]

The issue I see with Alex is that one season deviated from his normal behavioral pattern. In 2010-12 and 2014, he was a GM that valued years of control, draft picks, prospects, and future salary implications. In 2013, he valued overpaid veterans with no regard for prospects or long-term payroll. The last two seasons seem entirely dictated by ownership because his behavior in 2013 was not consistent at all with the rest of his tenure, and his 2014 off-season was a complete 180 from the previous off-season. So either he was forced into "win now" moves in 2013 by ownership or he made them on his own accord and simply panicked a year later when they did not pan out. It could be the latter, or possibly both, but I'm sure the former is the more likely answer.

I don't have an issue with his drafting or his more recent player development. He inherited a system that was bottom 5 in the league and a MLB team with the worst contract in baseball, a HOF starter who was driven out by the previous regime, and nothing resembling a star until he had Bautista fall on his lap. So the player development under AA the first few seasons may have been caused by the lack of talent that Ricciardi left him with (excluding Alvarez who the team may have given up on too soon). The only issue I had with his player development was his illogical fear of the PCL which forced him to promote starters from Double-A to the Majors (teams with much better pitching track records like Oakland and St. Louis have no problem letting their starters pitch there). Other than that, as the talent in the system becomes better with higher ceilings, I think we will start to see some players come up. It might be well after AA is canned, though.

[Schad]

The issue I see with Alex is that one season deviated from his normal behavioral pattern. In 2010-12 and 2014, he was a GM that valued years of control, draft picks, prospects, and future salary implications. In 2013, he valued overpaid veterans with no regard for prospects or long-term payroll. The last two seasons seem entirely dictated by ownership because his behavior in 2013 was not consistent at all with the rest of his tenure, and his 2014 off-season was a complete 180 from the previous off-season. So either he was forced into "win now" moves in 2013 by ownership or he made them on his own accord and simply panicked a year later when they did not pan out. It could be the latter, or possibly both, but I'm sure the former is the more likely answer.

I lean toward the view that he deviated because he knew that the roster had a limited window of opportunity...and moreover, he had a limited window in which he could convince ownership to spend, and would be more likely to spend on highly marketable (and very expensive) name players. Even with a massive pile of money and a deep farm system, there aren't many GMs could pull off such a massive undertaking in a couple months without seriously overpaying, but he probably did worse than most, heh.

[suntzuballin]

give him 1 more year dats it!

[Raider917]

could trading bautista and encarnacion in the winter each get a grade a pitching prospect? i know there would be a brutal offense without them but if the jays had a schiiling/rj type of top 2 starters in a few years, i would rather that than a offense first type team.

[Michael Bradley]

could trading bautista and encarnacion in the winter each get a grade a pitching prospect? i know there would be a brutal offense without them but if the jays had a schiiling/rj type of top 2 starters in a few years, i would rather that than a offense first type team.

Top prospects are being traded for players like Samardzija, so I'd hope the Jays could get elite level prospects for Bautista and Edwin. I'm just not sure there are enough teams with multiple top prospects who would be in position to trade for those two. Boston is one team, and they have a bunch of top 20 calibre prospects (Betts, Owens, Swihart). Maybe the Cardinals would move Taveras+ for one of Edwin/Bautista. I can't think of too many other teams in that boat.

But at this rate, if the Jays continue to sink, then rebuilding should be considered. It is better to do it one year too early than one year too late.

[Lateral Quicks]

could trading bautista and encarnacion in the winter each get a grade a pitching prospect? i know there would be a brutal offense without them but if the jays had a schiiling/rj type of top 2 starters in a few years, i would rather that than a offense first type team.

Bautista and Encarnacion are elite offensive talents signed to sweetheart deals up to and including the 2016 season. I'd say if you can't get two elite prospects in return for each of them, you don't trade them at all.