ST: Jays @ White Sox July 6-9

[Xaos]

No starting pitching will help if you can't score any runs.

[dagger]

The Jays are like the little Dutch boy, running around trying to plug holes in the dikes as new leaks continually open up. Adding one pitcher just isn't going to do enough to make this team a true contender. All it would do is make the season a gigantic one-run loss.

[Wo1verine]

I am not trading prospects for anybody at this stage.

Team just hasn't showed enough ..

[ldnk]

I am not trading prospects for anybody at this stage.

Team just hasn't showed enough ..

I've been pretty consistent with my feeling on this but no team is going to win with Gibbons as the manager.

He's now 201-211 in his second tenure with the team and 506-516 overall as a Jays manager. He's just not good. I realize that coaching is n't the difference between this team being a winner and being mediocre but I just find that Gibbons does nothing to boost this team and I think there are things that certain managers can accomplish to get a team to perform at that next level.

This team isn't good enough to win a World Series. I would sooner take the keys away from AA/Gibbons and not let him mortgage the future on a one-year rental.

[Mehar]

I am not trading prospects for anybody at this stage.

Team just hasn't showed enough ..

I agree. This team just gave up 16 hits to this Sox team who struggles offensively last night, and are back to .500 after losing 3 out of 4. Ever since the 11 game win streak, this team instead of springing forward with momentum looks like the team we saw struggling before that win streak. They are now facing the Royals next, and the way it looks right now- this team will probably be below .500 going into the All-Star break. If this downward trend continues after the break up to the Trade Deadline, and they fall 7-8 games back or so from the Division Lead or Wild Card on July 30th; i think instead of being buyers, this team might as well become sellers.

[Lateral Quicks]

If we're trending at .500 or below come the trade deadline, we should be sellers, not buyers. Maximize what you can get for Reyes, Bautista, EE, Dickey, and Buerhle.

Rotation:
Stroman
Osuna
Sanchez
Norris
Hutch
Castro
Hoffman
Boyd

Lineup:
Donaldson
Martin
Travis
Pillar
Pompey
Saunders
Smoak/Valencia

Plus whatever prospects you get back in trade plus what $50-60M of freed up salary buys you.

[wow09]

Typical Jays. Go on a huge win streak and get everyone interested only to come back down to earth and suck again. Rinse and repeat year after year

[Raptor_Guy]

I know it wouldn't be popular but I would sell Dickey and Buerhle at the deadline and eat some of the salary if it could net us some top prospects, the pitching market is very sparse and there are a ton of teams looking for pitching, you could get something good for them.

[Santoki]

I know it wouldn't be popular but I would sell Dickey and Buerhle at the deadline and eat some of the salary if it could net us some top prospects, the pitching market is very sparse and there are a ton of teams looking for pitching, you could get something good for them.

There's not really much salary to eat. Buerhle is a FA next year and there's a team option on Dickey for 2016.

[Michael Bradley]

I know it wouldn't be popular but I would sell Dickey and Buerhle at the deadline and eat some of the salary if it could net us some top prospects, the pitching market is very sparse and there are a ton of teams looking for pitching, you could get something good for them.

Buehrle can be given the qualifying offer at the end of the season and possibly net the team an extra draft pick. Not worth moving him unless the return in greater than that. I would prefer bringing him back beyond 2015, but I'm sure he will have suitors elsewhere.

Dickey likely has little to no value. I'm sure a team would take him on the off chance that a change of scenery might help him, but I doubt anyone is going to give up even a decent prospect for him at this point. Maybe a year ago. Not now.

[Mehar]

If we're trending at .500 or below come the trade deadline, we should be sellers, not buyers. Maximize what you can get for Reyes, Bautista, EE, Dickey, and Buerhle.

Rotation:
Stroman
Osuna
Sanchez
Norris
Hutch
Castro
Hoffman
Boyd

Lineup:
Donaldson
Martin
Travis
Pillar
Pompey
Saunders
Smoak/Valencia

Plus whatever prospects you get back in trade plus what $50-60M of freed up salary buys you.

I accidentally posted this in another thread, but meant to post it in this one. You said this a couple of weeks ago, and i was sort of hesitant to trade Jose or EE; but if this team struggles up until the trade deadline, i think trades for both guys needs to be explored to see what high-end MLB ready stud pitchers might be available in return. I am a firm believer that good pitching beats good hitting. I love teams that are built on strong defense and strong pitching. If the Jays can get 5 high-end MLB ready stud pitchers in exchange for EE and Bautista, then you cannot say no. I doubt Jose will sign with Toronto after next year as well. He said repeatedly that he wants to taste the playoffs, and if it is not going to happen in Toronto, i believe Jose is a guy that will not be shy going elsewhere. Teams like the Dodgers, Red Sox or Yankees will have no problem giving Jose over 25 M a year as well.

I have now come around to your viewpoints. I am no longer comfortable trading guys like Stroman, Hoffman, Sanchez, etc., to get rentals for the year. I am not convinced that getting one stud starter for the rest of the year (i.e. Cueto), while mortgaging the future, is going to propel this team to greatness. This team should have been more active in Free Agency last year (getting a starter like Shields, and good bullpen options), but this team reduced its payroll by 11 M. All along, the Rogers Shills like Shi Davidi and Bob McCown had floated that the Jays would be willing to spend 140-50 M for 2015, but changed its tune weeks later. It is what it is. I am no longer comfortable dealing any good prospects for rentals. Might as well look towards the future.

[Lateral Quicks]

I accidentally posted this in another thread, but meant to post it in this one. You said this a couple of weeks ago, and i was sort of hesitant to trade Jose or EE; but if this team struggles up until the trade deadline, i think trades for both guys needs to be explored to see what high-end MLB ready stud pitchers might be available in return. I am a firm believer that good pitching beats good hitting. I love teams that are built on strong defense and strong pitching. If the Jays can get 5 high-end MLB ready stud pitchers in exchange for EE and Bautista, then you cannot say no. I doubt Jose will sign with Toronto after next year as well. He said repeatedly that he wants to taste the playoffs, and if it is not going to happen in Toronto, i believe Jose is a guy that will not be shy going elsewhere. Teams like the Dodgers, Red Sox or Yankees will have no problem giving Jose over 25 M a year as well.

I have now come around to your viewpoints. I am no longer comfortable trading guys like Stroman, Hoffman, Sanchez, etc., to get rentals for the year. I am not convinced that getting one stud starter for the rest of the year (i.e. Cueto), while mortgaging the future, is going to propel this team to greatness. This team should have been more active in Free Agency last year (getting a starter like Shields, and good bullpen options), but this team reduced its payroll by 11 M. All along, the Rogers Shills like Shi Davidi and Bob McCown had floated that the Jays would be willing to spend 140-50 M for 2015, but changed its tune weeks later. It is what it is. I am no longer comfortable dealing any good prospects for rentals. Might as well look towards the future.

We wouldn't necessarily need young pitching back either, since we have all sorts of that already.

What I would look to do is secure at least two high-end, ready or near-ready position prospects via all these trades. That helps us round out our roster next year. Then I would use all the freed salary to either acquire a genuine #1 or #2 veteran starter to lead the younglings, either through trade or via free agency. As MB has posted before, there is potential for a quick rebuild. If AA - or his successor - has the stones for it. With Donaldson and Martin increasingly being the faces of the franchise in marketing material, the Jays may be willing to trade some of their other vets.

[Mehar]

I accidentally posted this in another thread, but meant to post it in this one. You said this a couple of weeks ago, and i was sort of hesitant to trade Jose or EE; but if this team struggles up until the trade deadline, i think trades for both guys needs to be explored to see what high-end MLB ready stud pitchers might be available in return. I am a firm believer that good pitching beats good hitting. I love teams that are built on strong defense and strong pitching. If the Jays can get 5 high-end MLB ready stud pitchers in exchange for EE and Bautista, then you cannot say no. I doubt Jose will sign with Toronto after next year as well. He said repeatedly that he wants to taste the playoffs, and if it is not going to happen in Toronto, i believe Jose is a guy that will not be shy going elsewhere. Teams like the Dodgers, Red Sox or Yankees will have no problem giving Jose over 25 M a year as well.

I have now come around to your viewpoints. I am no longer comfortable trading guys like Stroman, Hoffman, Sanchez, etc., to get rentals for the year. I am not convinced that getting one stud starter for the rest of the year (i.e. Cueto), while mortgaging the future, is going to propel this team to greatness. This team should have been more active in Free Agency last year (getting a starter like Shields, and good bullpen options), but this team reduced its payroll by 11 M. All along, the Rogers Shills like Shi Davidi and Bob McCown had floated that the Jays would be willing to spend 140-50 M for 2015, but changed its tune weeks later. It is what it is. I am no longer comfortable dealing any good prospects for rentals. Might as well look towards the future.

We wouldn't necessarily need young pitching back either, since we have all sorts of that already.

What I would look to do is secure at least two high-end, ready or near-ready position prospects via all these trades. That helps us round out our roster next year. Then I would use all the freed salary to either acquire a genuine #1 or #2 veteran starter to lead the younglings, either through trade or via free agency. As MB has posted before, there is potential for a quick rebuild. If AA - or his successor - has the stones for it. With Donaldson and Martin increasingly being the faces of the franchise in marketing material, the Jays may be willing to trade some of their other vets.

Makes sense. You are right- you do need all young pitching back in trades, but if you can get a couple of more high-end MLB ready stud arms, you got to get them. Stroman will be coming back from a year layoff, and Norris has still been inconsistent this year. I am not sold on the Jays getting a Number One starter in free agency, since they refuse to go over 5 years for contracts. More pitching the better, but if you can shore up LF as well, that would be great. Let's see where the Jays stand in a couple of weeks. If they continue to struggle, then the time is right to become sellers.