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Poll time: Should Gibby be manager next year

Moderator: JaysRule15

Should Gibby be back to manage this team?

Poll ended at Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:33 pm

Yes
39
75%
No
13
25%
 
Total votes: 52

Hoopstarr
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Re: Poll time: Should Gibby be manager next year 

Post#21 » by Hoopstarr » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:53 am

Scott Hall wrote:
Hoopstarr wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:
lol what?

I'm actually pretty surprised by all the Gibby love in here because mostly all I heard the last few months
from most people is how bad he was. It did take us assembling an All-Star roster to finally win with him
and there is lots of things this team does that I don't like that good coaching could improve and that's
cutting down on the constant base running mistakes, not being able to lay down a proper bunt ever, having
good approaches at the plate and I don't like some of his defensive shifts. I've never heard any player past or
present ever give Gibbons credit for anything.

As for Cito he took over for Gibbons in 2008 and had a way better record than him with the same roster and the
Cito of 2009/2010 is also credited for taking a journeymen named Jose Bautista reworking his swing and plate approach
and turning him into one of the greatest Blue Jays ever, a perennial All-Star and a guy who's always considered an
MVP candidate. He's also credited with also helping Ediwn for becoming the hitter he has become.

Fans on this board used to hate him for not playing Arencibia, Snider and his handling of guys like Drabek, Morrow etc
but those guys sucked and did **** all since they've left.

Bashing Cito is really embarrassing imo


Cito was also the noted "player's manager" who created the toxic clubhouse that got him run out. The W-L means nothing. He is a good hitting coach though.


He didn't get "run out" he was never gonna be a long term solution because of his age. What was so "toxic" about the
clubhouse? Because he didn't communicate to Travis Sniders liking? John Gibbons got in a brawl with Ted Lilly and nobody
holds that against him.

If Roberto Alomar, Joe Carter, Jose Bautista and Edwin are telling people that he's the best coach they've ever played for
that should hold some merit with the fans and the 2 championships he won.

Why those things get overlooked because Joe fan doesn't like the way he "managed the bullpen" to their liking and
they deem him a bad manager is beyond absurd.

We have had so many bad coaches/managers across all the Toronto sports landscape and for some fans to put
Cito in the "bad" category is really embarrassing.


Consider that he basically quit as manager during his first stint, then couldn't get a job for 11 years, partly because he felt he shouldn't need to interview. He only got the job again in 08 in a surprise overnight move. If he's so good wouldn't he have been hired at any point in between? His clubhouse presence in the second stint was basically the opposite of Gibbons. He didn't communicate with players (not just Snider) and in some cases criticized them in the press. When Gibbons got into it with Lilly and Hillenbrand, it ended there and everyone knew the player was in the wrong.

In the dugout Cito was noted as amongst the most passive ever. He was stoic in good times and bad and rarely made changes on the field he didn't have to, including going to relief pitchers. That happened to suit the loaded 90s teams, but not with any other kind of group as he showed after 93. Great hitting coach, though.

You can't ask for more in a manager than what Gibbons is doing. The worst thing a manager can do, even worse than bad bullpen calls, is to lose the clubhouse. Baseball players are particularly sensitive people, and cliques are prone to form with the different parts of the roster. If enough guys feel slighted or issues start to fester then it spreads fast. That's why manager is good term instead of coach, because they're managing human resources just as much as a baseball team. Gibbons communicates, has the respect of players and treats them fairly, and he has fun which can be infectious. It helps that he also makes the right moves on the field.
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Re: Poll time: Should Gibby be manager next year 

Post#22 » by Scott Hall » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:55 am

Hoopstarr wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:
Hoopstarr wrote:
Cito was also the noted "player's manager" who created the toxic clubhouse that got him run out. The W-L means nothing. He is a good hitting coach though.


He didn't get "run out" he was never gonna be a long term solution because of his age. What was so "toxic" about the
clubhouse? Because he didn't communicate to Travis Sniders liking? John Gibbons got in a brawl with Ted Lilly and nobody
holds that against him.

If Roberto Alomar, Joe Carter, Jose Bautista and Edwin are telling people that he's the best coach they've ever played for
that should hold some merit with the fans and the 2 championships he won.

Why those things get overlooked because Joe fan doesn't like the way he "managed the bullpen" to their liking and
they deem him a bad manager is beyond absurd.

We have had so many bad coaches/managers across all the Toronto sports landscape and for some fans to put
Cito in the "bad" category is really embarrassing.


Consider that he basically quit as manager during his first stint, then couldn't get a job for 11 years, partly because he felt he shouldn't need to interview. He only got the job again in 08 in a surprise overnight move. If he's so good wouldn't he have been hired at any point in between? His clubhouse presence in the second stint was basically the opposite of Gibbons. He didn't communicate with players (not just Snider) and in some cases criticized them in the press. When Gibbons got into it with Lilly and Hillenbrand, it ended there and everyone knew the player was in the wrong.

In the dugout Cito was noted as amongst the most passive ever. He was stoic in good times and bad and rarely made changes on the field he didn't have to, including going to relief pitchers. That happened to suit the loaded 90s teams, but not with any other kind of group as he showed after 93. Great hitting coach, though.

You can't ask for more in a manager than what Gibbons is doing. The worst thing a manager can do, even worse than bad bullpen calls, is to lose the clubhouse. Baseball players are particularly sensitive people, and cliques are prone to form with the different parts of the roster. If enough guys feel slighted or issues start to fester then it spreads fast. That's why manager is good term instead of coach, because they're managing human resources just as much as a baseball team. Gibbons communicates, has the respect of players and treats them fairly, and he has fun which can be infectious. It helps that he also makes the right moves on the field.


Well the fact that he's black seems to be a major factor in not only him getting a job but barely getting an interview.
African American coaches have a hard time getting jobs in the NFL which is a sport that is dominated by black people
minus QBs so imagine a black coach trying to get a job in the 90's or early 2000's in baseball.

People complain about his bullpen management but all I remember is guys like Timlin, Hengten, Eichorn, Ward
and Henke getting the job done. Passive? His teams never made base running, defensive mistakes and could lay
down a bunt. For the most part his teams were usually running on all cylinders.

He seemed to "communicate" well with Bautista and Edwin but gets criticized for not coddling some young kid
who's turned out to be a bust and journeymen?

I've heard complaints about the Jays clubhouse with Gibbons here as well Adam Lind has made a few cracks. I've
never heard a player publicly vouch for Gibbons. The Dominican/Latino clique before the trades last year was
very noticeable and outside of Lawrie nobody really hung out or sat on the bench with Melky, Reyes, Edwin, Navarro,
Jose etc etc and that was under Gibbons.

The MLB network/ESPN guys criticized Gibbons plenty during the playoffs and down the stretch of the season eg. Batting
Tulo leadoff, Giving Price 11 days off, handling of Buehrle, giving KC Home Field, Pulling Dickey early in Game 4
and burning Price vs. Texas, Not going to the pen earlier when Price became unglued in game 2 vs KC etc etc.

I've been told on here in so many words that results don't matter and Gibbons always makes good moves that can't
be questioned and Cito always makes bad moves and whatever he accomplished has some sort of * with it.

As for Gibbons I'm not advocating getting rid of him I doubt there's much on the market anyways. I've met Gibby
in person great guy and I love the type of man he is but as a baseball manager I've yet to see anything special
that any other manager couldn't do.
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Re: Poll time: Should Gibby be manager next year 

Post#23 » by UN-Owen » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:23 am

s e n s i wrote:
UN-Owen wrote:To be honest, I'm not sure

There's really no excuse for not being able to lay down a bunt when the situation calls for it, yet this team seemed unable to do so

That means the manager and coaches didn't have this team prepared


not enough bunting practice, fire the manager


Make sarcastic jokes, but the Jays were beat and their inability to advance runners and manufacture runs is a major reason why
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Re: Poll time: Should Gibby be manager next year 

Post#24 » by ldnk » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:41 am

I don't really care for Gibbons but the reality is that most coaches have a negligible effect on a team. Gibbons really doesn't have a huge effect on the team. There are a handful of managers I would rather have than Gibbons and none of them are available on the market.
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Re: Poll time: Should Gibby be manager next year 

Post#25 » by Xaos » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:00 pm

Gibbons will be back or else...

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Re: Poll time: Should Gibby be manager next year 

Post#26 » by s e n s i » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:25 pm

UN-Owen wrote:
s e n s i wrote:
UN-Owen wrote:To be honest, I'm not sure

There's really no excuse for not being able to lay down a bunt when the situation calls for it, yet this team seemed unable to do so

That means the manager and coaches didn't have this team prepared


not enough bunting practice, fire the manager


Make sarcastic jokes, but the Jays were beat and their inability to advance runners and manufacture runs is a major reason why


here we go with the simple small ball narrative. jays led the league this year in sacrifice flies. if that isn't indicative of getting runners to 3rd with less than two outs and cashing those runners or "manufacturing runs", i don't know what is.

they were beat because of their inability to hit period with runners in scoring position, not because gibbons didn't schedule enough time for bunting practice over the course of the season.
galacticos2 wrote:MLB needs to introduce an Amnesty clause. Bautista would be my first victim.

Bautista outplays his contract by more than $70 million over the next four seasons (2013-2016).
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Re: Poll time: Should Gibby be manager next year 

Post#27 » by Hoopstarr » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:28 pm

Scott Hall wrote:
Hoopstarr wrote:
Scott Hall wrote:
He didn't get "run out" he was never gonna be a long term solution because of his age. What was so "toxic" about the
clubhouse? Because he didn't communicate to Travis Sniders liking? John Gibbons got in a brawl with Ted Lilly and nobody
holds that against him.

If Roberto Alomar, Joe Carter, Jose Bautista and Edwin are telling people that he's the best coach they've ever played for
that should hold some merit with the fans and the 2 championships he won.

Why those things get overlooked because Joe fan doesn't like the way he "managed the bullpen" to their liking and
they deem him a bad manager is beyond absurd.

We have had so many bad coaches/managers across all the Toronto sports landscape and for some fans to put
Cito in the "bad" category is really embarrassing.


Consider that he basically quit as manager during his first stint, then couldn't get a job for 11 years, partly because he felt he shouldn't need to interview. He only got the job again in 08 in a surprise overnight move. If he's so good wouldn't he have been hired at any point in between? His clubhouse presence in the second stint was basically the opposite of Gibbons. He didn't communicate with players (not just Snider) and in some cases criticized them in the press. When Gibbons got into it with Lilly and Hillenbrand, it ended there and everyone knew the player was in the wrong.

In the dugout Cito was noted as amongst the most passive ever. He was stoic in good times and bad and rarely made changes on the field he didn't have to, including going to relief pitchers. That happened to suit the loaded 90s teams, but not with any other kind of group as he showed after 93. Great hitting coach, though.

You can't ask for more in a manager than what Gibbons is doing. The worst thing a manager can do, even worse than bad bullpen calls, is to lose the clubhouse. Baseball players are particularly sensitive people, and cliques are prone to form with the different parts of the roster. If enough guys feel slighted or issues start to fester then it spreads fast. That's why manager is good term instead of coach, because they're managing human resources just as much as a baseball team. Gibbons communicates, has the respect of players and treats them fairly, and he has fun which can be infectious. It helps that he also makes the right moves on the field.


Well the fact that he's black seems to be a major factor in not only him getting a job but barely getting an interview.
African American coaches have a hard time getting jobs in the NFL which is a sport that is dominated by black people
minus QBs so imagine a black coach trying to get a job in the 90's or early 2000's in baseball.

People complain about his bullpen management but all I remember is guys like Timlin, Hengten, Eichorn, Ward
and Henke getting the job done. Passive? His teams never made base running, defensive mistakes and could lay
down a bunt. For the most part his teams were usually running on all cylinders.

He seemed to "communicate" well with Bautista and Edwin but gets criticized for not coddling some young kid
who's turned out to be a bust and journeymen?

I've heard complaints about the Jays clubhouse with Gibbons here as well Adam Lind has made a few cracks. I've
never heard a player publicly vouch for Gibbons. The Dominican/Latino clique before the trades last year was
very noticeable and outside of Lawrie nobody really hung out or sat on the bench with Melky, Reyes, Edwin, Navarro,
Jose etc etc and that was under Gibbons.

The MLB network/ESPN guys criticized Gibbons plenty during the playoffs and down the stretch of the season eg. Batting
Tulo leadoff, Giving Price 11 days off, handling of Buehrle, giving KC Home Field, Pulling Dickey early in Game 4
and burning Price vs. Texas, Not going to the pen earlier when Price became unglued in game 2 vs KC etc etc.

I've been told on here in so many words that results don't matter and Gibbons always makes good moves that can't
be questioned and Cito always makes bad moves and whatever he accomplished has some sort of * with it.

As for Gibbons I'm not advocating getting rid of him I doubt there's much on the market anyways. I've met Gibby
in person great guy and I love the type of man he is but as a baseball manager I've yet to see anything special
that any other manager couldn't do.


You seem to think I'm making all of this up. It wasn't just Snider in the 2009 "mutiny". Rolen, Wells, Hill, Overbay were quoted or cited as having problems with Cito. If they did so in the press imagine how many others privately felt the same way. It was reported "half" the clubhouse was against him, and Ken Rosenthal reported it was the whole clubhouse.

Regarding his tactics, again not making things up: http://www.ghostrunneronfirst.com/2009/12/excerpt-evaluating-baseballs-managers.html

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