Scott Hall wrote:Hoopstarr wrote:Scott Hall wrote:
lol what?
I'm actually pretty surprised by all the Gibby love in here because mostly all I heard the last few months
from most people is how bad he was. It did take us assembling an All-Star roster to finally win with him
and there is lots of things this team does that I don't like that good coaching could improve and that's
cutting down on the constant base running mistakes, not being able to lay down a proper bunt ever, having
good approaches at the plate and I don't like some of his defensive shifts. I've never heard any player past or
present ever give Gibbons credit for anything.
As for Cito he took over for Gibbons in 2008 and had a way better record than him with the same roster and the
Cito of 2009/2010 is also credited for taking a journeymen named Jose Bautista reworking his swing and plate approach
and turning him into one of the greatest Blue Jays ever, a perennial All-Star and a guy who's always considered an
MVP candidate. He's also credited with also helping Ediwn for becoming the hitter he has become.
Fans on this board used to hate him for not playing Arencibia, Snider and his handling of guys like Drabek, Morrow etc
but those guys sucked and did **** all since they've left.
Bashing Cito is really embarrassing imo
Cito was also the noted "player's manager" who created the toxic clubhouse that got him run out. The W-L means nothing. He is a good hitting coach though.
He didn't get "run out" he was never gonna be a long term solution because of his age. What was so "toxic" about the
clubhouse? Because he didn't communicate to Travis Sniders liking? John Gibbons got in a brawl with Ted Lilly and nobody
holds that against him.
If Roberto Alomar, Joe Carter, Jose Bautista and Edwin are telling people that he's the best coach they've ever played for
that should hold some merit with the fans and the 2 championships he won.
Why those things get overlooked because Joe fan doesn't like the way he "managed the bullpen" to their liking and
they deem him a bad manager is beyond absurd.
We have had so many bad coaches/managers across all the Toronto sports landscape and for some fans to put
Cito in the "bad" category is really embarrassing.
Consider that he basically quit as manager during his first stint, then couldn't get a job for 11 years, partly because he felt he shouldn't need to interview. He only got the job again in 08 in a surprise overnight move. If he's so good wouldn't he have been hired at any point in between? His clubhouse presence in the second stint was basically the opposite of Gibbons. He didn't communicate with players (not just Snider) and in some cases criticized them in the press. When Gibbons got into it with Lilly and Hillenbrand, it ended there and everyone knew the player was in the wrong.
In the dugout Cito was noted as amongst the most passive ever. He was stoic in good times and bad and rarely made changes on the field he didn't have to, including going to relief pitchers. That happened to suit the loaded 90s teams, but not with any other kind of group as he showed after 93. Great hitting coach, though.
You can't ask for more in a manager than what Gibbons is doing. The worst thing a manager can do, even worse than bad bullpen calls, is to lose the clubhouse. Baseball players are particularly sensitive people, and cliques are prone to form with the different parts of the roster. If enough guys feel slighted or issues start to fester then it spreads fast. That's why manager is good term instead of coach, because they're managing human resources just as much as a baseball team. Gibbons communicates, has the respect of players and treats them fairly, and he has fun which can be infectious. It helps that he also makes the right moves on the field.