any chance AA is over rated?

[Hoopstarr]

This sudden contrarianism is hysterical and dumb. In AA's 6 seasons as GM he completely overhauled the scouting apparatus to where we went from one of the worst farm systems to the very best in just two drafts, and he gave us a prominent presence in LA again; he made great trades, including trading for a pick (suddenly people are so quick to dismiss trades like dumping Vernon's 90M, trading for an MVP, Morrow, Lawrie, Travis.); he had the respect of fellow GMs, put together an excellent and stable FO, and had great media relations. Judging a GM by W-L and outcomes in a game like baseball is as narrow-minded as it gets, particularly for a Rogers GM in the AL East. Do any of you remember how Dayton Moore and Brian Sabean were regarded before their success? Moore as recently as last year? A GM's worth in the final analysis basically comes down to getting a couple or three big moves right, and usually by chance. This follows with the incredibly frustratingly random nature of chance in baseball in general. Sabean's three WS are essentially built on MadBum and getting incredibly lucky in the playoffs with not even top 5 teams. If AA doesn't make (or doesn't feel he has to make - see below) that awful and unnecessary Dickey trade, suddenly his record looks sterling and no one is talking this good riddance nonsense. Oh btw, going by the outcomes analysis logic, Shapiro had exactly 1 playoff appearance in 9 years as GM and 14 total leading the Indians, in the AL Central. So I prefer to look at the substance of a GM's work, character and intent and AA gets high marks from me and no doubt from the baseball world. Then there's the matter of environment. Not only is the AL East much tougher than any other division as far as playing 19 games vs each team, but you have a short window of Boston and New York being beatable. Making the margin of error even smaller is that a Jays GM can't be sure what kind of commitment and vote of confidence they're getting year to year and having incompetent presidents like Godfrey and Beeston makes matters worse. Under these circumstances, you can't really blame a guy for going big when he sees an opening. I said when JPR was fired that the standard for a Blue Jays GM was being the very best GM in baseball. AA came pretty close. Good luck (including actual luck) to Shapiro on being the best.

[KL78192020]

Shaprio has a pretty crappy drafting record. Whereas AA even though he traded them away, drafted really well.

[The_Hater]

With the way people are acting towards his departure, it's not a question if he's overrated just how much.

Exactly. Again, he only had three good months and there is no guarantee that there will be enough pitching next season to sustain it.

The only people over-rating Alex more than the fans are the Toronto media.

I'd argue that he had a solid 12 months. The Donaldson, Travis and Estrada trades all rate extremely high. But there was a lot of spinning wheels prior to that. The Dickey trade is a complete disaster which would have been far more documented if the Jays weren't good again this season. As was the Gomes deal. The Reyes trade just added 2 grossly overpaid players who tied up money that could have been used elsewhere. His points for the first 5 seasons are extending JB and EE for below market value and creating a solid farm system but the results on the field were non existent.

[Santoki]

AA was a good GM that I wish was still with the team but he's not anymore. Overrated depends on how angry your Facebook status was on Thursday. If you haven't moved on by now you probably overrated him a tad.

[Trouba95]

He is very overrated by the masses. Three months doesn't erase 5 years of futility and trading away Synder, d'Arnaud and Gomes.

[Trouba95]

Can't wait until we develop a young core like in Cleveland and actually have the payroll to supplement and fill in the holes. Go Shapiro!

[RotR]

We had meaningful baseball in September for the first time in 22 years. Remember that. /thread

[suntzuballin]

Did not like the dickey for synagarrd the marlins trade was enuff but buddy was on some sort of high and not so pumped on tulo trade cause i like castro and hoffman probly will be like synagarrd,its not so bad cause tulo had some big hits not like dickey who is mediocre and shid the bed k.c series it doesnt matter his half season of success it doesnt make up for 2 half years and losing synagarrd.But he made some good moves like on bringing in Donaldson.

[OakleyDokely]

People forget about the mess AA inherited. It was a terrible team with a bare prospect pool. 5 years is a reasonable amount of time to turn a mediocre club into a WS contender. Expecting to fix everything in 1-2 seasons is unreasonable. AA is a big loss.

[suntzuballin]

Ya i do remeber he dumped veron wells contract that was a good move.

[Scott Hall]

The AA of 2009-2014 yes...

The AA from the end of the 2014 season till the day he left no...

It's a sad story of to little to late. At his last press conference he even admitted he was a better GM
with better values.

To bad it took him to realize it in a contract year and the team under performed in the first half this year...

The AA of 2009-2014 I'm glad is gone but the new AA who "got it" and started making good moves last winter
and through 2015 I'm sad to see go.

[kayliecee]

He is very overrated by the masses. Three months doesn't erase 5 years of futility and trading away Synder, d'Arnaud and Gomes.

You trade for an MVP and a ROY candidate in the same year and give up almost nothing and you are protected from the judgment of idiots and/or people with 20 posts who call themselves die hards IMO. I mean, you may turn out to be smarter than AA, but if you are, don't waste your time here. Go run an MLB team. I'm sure they are waiting for your call.

[bananaman]

So why do we care how great AA is anymore? He decided to leave due to Rogers hiring someone above him in baseball ops. I don't understand throwing Shapiro under the bus, especially since he seems to be pretty good himself. I'm fine moving forward with Shapiro's vision as long as he doesn't deviate from it for short term gain.

[SharoneWright]

Hated the fire-sale. Said it explicitly at the time.

Even if we'd have won the WS, I prefer 10 years of 'meaningful baseball' in September than 1 banner.

AA shipwrecked us. Operated like a drunken sailor. Now we're stuck.

[HeatedEnd]

Well...I would be ok if we won the WS but I definitely think AA's failure started in the 2013 deals. Tried to go all in, kinda did the same thing then, didn't really work. Now he's almost out of time and through desperation has to try it again, almost worked but depletes the farm. I think this offseason is really important in keeping the Big league team at a level that can compete for a few years, so they can give themselves time to restock through the draft.

[StopitLeo]

AA is benefiting from a recency effect. People have forgotten how at the All Star break people were already saying he wasn't going to be extended, and rightly so. Over his 6 years he has achieved one division title and ALCS appearance. Shapiro did the same thing in Cleveland as GM, one division title and ALCS appearance (took him 7 years). So thinking AA is much superior isn't supported by the results.

I wonder whether winning the WS this year would have changed the view of those who think it was terrible to deplete the farm system trying to win this year. It shouldn't if your philosophy was against such moves. I just think that you have to take advantage of opportunities to win, which Alex did.

It is a nice idea to be able to develop talent to the point that you have a primarily home grown roster capable of contending year in and year out, but how long is that going to take to happen? Certainly longer than one GM's tenure, which is the problem because unless ownership maintains that mandate it is impossible. And we know Rogers' has been more of the mind to try and just be competitive, even if that means failing to make the playoffs for two decades.

[Raps in 4]

Judging a GM by W-L and outcomes in a game like baseball is as narrow-minded as it gets, particularly for a Rogers GM in the AL East.

Is that really a surprise? Most fans still judge players based on their batting average and RBI count.

[Raps in 4]

It is a nice idea to be able to develop talent to the point that you have a primarily home grown roster capable of contending year in and year out, but how long is that going to take to happen? Certainly longer than one GM's tenure, which is the problem because unless ownership maintains that mandate it is impossible.

Bingo. The fans trashing AA expected him to rebuild the worst farm system in baseball and then use it to organically develop a contender in 6 years. Those were completely unrealistic expectations and just show how little fans know about GM work.