Wild Card Game: Baltimore (Tillman) @ Toronto (Stroman) | Tuesday, October 4 | 8PM EST

[LLJ]

I get financials and all that, but it's going to be **** awful if the Jays are without both EE and Bautista next year. Between the bat flip and the pose, they've put their stamp on Jays history. Anyone who turns their back on those guys, should they leave, no matter how hard the feelings, needs to be publicly shamed - maybe bring back town square stocks or something like that.

Well, Pujols left the Cards after their last WS win, so...I guess I'd be fine with them bolting if we win it all, but yeah, if we don't, it will hurt from a fan standpoint

[The_Hater]

I get financials and all that, but it's going to be **** awful if the Jays are without both EE and Bautista next year. Between the bat flip and the pose, they've put their stamp on Jays history. Anyone who turns their back on those guys, should they leave, no matter how hard the feelings, needs to be publicly shamed - maybe bring back town square stocks or something like that.

This is Toronto, both of them will be soundly booed for leaving regardless of the reason. Edwin signing with Boston will be equated to Bosh signing with Miami. If they struggle to hit in the playoffs, they'll be accused of tanking.

The only thing I can see that might change that response is a World Series victory.

[LLJ]

Edwin signing with Boston is worse than Bosh signing with Miami imo

[I_Like_Dirt]

I don't see it. Honestly, I wasn't particularly upset by Bosh leaving, but in Edwin's case, he'd be taking waaaaay more money in the process. In Bosh' case, he actually took less money to leave. I'm fairly confident Edwin stays if the Jays pay up, but if he takes more money to go to arguably a better team in Boston, good on him. He's given his all to the Jays.

[Skin Blues]

I get financials and all that, but it's going to be **** awful if the Jays are without both EE and Bautista next year. Between the bat flip and the pose, they've put their stamp on Jays history. Anyone who turns their back on those guys, should they leave, no matter how hard the feelings, needs to be publicly shamed - maybe bring back town square stocks or something like that.

Well, Pujols left the Cards after their last WS win, so...I guess I'd be fine with them bolting if we win it all, but yeah, if we don't, it will hurt from a fan standpoint

And what a nightmare it would have been for the Cardinals if they'd kept Pujols. Look at the hole it's put the Angels in with two horrible contracts dragging them down. Ironically enough, an injury riddled outfielder (Hamilton) and a relatively healthy first baseman (Pujols) dealing with normal age decline. People who want the Jays to re-sign Jose and Eddie should take a look at how it's crippled the Angels,to the extent that even having the best player in baseball hasn't helped them to not be terrible.

[LLJ]

I get financials and all that, but it's going to be **** awful if the Jays are without both EE and Bautista next year. Between the bat flip and the pose, they've put their stamp on Jays history. Anyone who turns their back on those guys, should they leave, no matter how hard the feelings, needs to be publicly shamed - maybe bring back town square stocks or something like that.

Well, Pujols left the Cards after their last WS win, so...I guess I'd be fine with them bolting if we win it all, but yeah, if we don't, it will hurt from a fan standpoint

And what a nightmare it would have been for the Cardinals if they'd kept Pujols. Look at the hole it's put the Angels in with two horrible contracts dragging them down. Ironically enough, an injury riddled outfielder (Hamilton) and a relatively healthy first baseman (Pujols) dealing with normal age decline. People who want the Jays to re-sign Jose and Eddie should take a look at how it's crippled the Angels,to the extent that even having the best player in baseball hasn't helped them to not be terrible.

yeah. And remember, Pujols was pretty good in that postseason IIRC. While he showed decline, I think few would have predicted he'd go into the toilet after that year

[Skin Blues]

He didn't even really go into the toilet. He missed some time one year but the other four he was very healthy, and his bat declined but not dramatically. This is what people should have expected. It could be a LOT worse, and it still held them back from being a good team. And it will be even worse over the next 5 years when he's earning $140M. Emotional decisions are a very bad thing to make. Give it until the winter and see how people feel. Even after Jose's heroics last fall it didn't take long into the contract negotiations for most of the city to turn against him.

[I_Like_Dirt]

This is Toronto, both of them will be soundly booed for leaving regardless of the reason. Edwin signing with Boston will be equated to Bosh signing with Miami. If they struggle to hit in the playoffs, they'll be accused of tanking.

The only thing I can see that might change that response is a World Series victory.

I don't even think a World Series victory does it.

And make no mistake, I will understand if they leave and the Jays don't pay them massive contracts, it will just suck to see them go. I mean, yeah the Cardinals were better off letting Pujols walk, but even as a non-Cardinals fan, it just feels awkward watching him in a different uniform. So it will absolutely be understandable, but that isn't going to make it suck any less. And my point was more, as Hater identified, about the many people who will invariably vilify them when they leave. They could both go to Boston together and I wouldn't care. What they've done for the Jays has been brilliant.

[BigLeagueChew]

He pitched a great game except for one pitch.

This is always such a frustrating thing to hear. He probably made a dozen, if not more, "mistakes" of that scale that the batter simply wasn't ready for, or missed by an eighth of an inch and popped up rather than putting over the fence, or jsut didn't swing at for whatever reason. I don't think people realize how imprecise pitchers actually are at spotting their pitches. They almost never go exactly where they're intended.

Obviously. But what is the point of bringing up his other mistakes that game or even analyzing them, when they were likely not worse. I do realize everything you said here but this particular pitch was intended to be an inside pitch, a first pitch and a fast ball inside when upto that point Stroman had thrown mostly breaking pitches with very good success. The point of the post was to compare Stroman's start to his last start against Baltimore Sept 29, where he gave up 4 earned runs throwing mostly sinkers and curves, not his one mistake pitch to Trumbo. This time he went mostly cutters, sliders and curves.

Am not going to sit here and say, should have been more careful with Michael Bourne.

[The_Hater]

I get financials and all that, but it's going to be **** awful if the Jays are without both EE and Bautista next year. Between the bat flip and the pose, they've put their stamp on Jays history. Anyone who turns their back on those guys, should they leave, no matter how hard the feelings, needs to be publicly shamed - maybe bring back town square stocks or something like that.

Well, Pujols left the Cards after their last WS win, so...I guess I'd be fine with them bolting if we win it all, but yeah, if we don't, it will hurt from a fan standpoint

And what a nightmare it would have been for the Cardinals if they'd kept Pujols. Look at the hole it's put the Angels in with two horrible contracts dragging them down. Ironically enough, an injury riddled outfielder (Hamilton) and a relatively healthy first baseman (Pujols) dealing with normal age decline. People who want the Jays to re-sign Jose and Eddie should take a look at how it's crippled the Angels,to the extent that even having the best player in baseball hasn't helped them to not be terrible.

This is it in a nutshell. People often talk about how much annual salary players want but it's the length of the contract that kills organizations. If Jose signs for 1-2 years this winter, that's a low risk contract regardless of the final salary. Edwin at 5 years will almost certainly be regrettable.

[The_Hater]

This is Toronto, both of them will be soundly booed for leaving regardless of the reason. Edwin signing with Boston will be equated to Bosh signing with Miami. If they struggle to hit in the playoffs, they'll be accused of tanking.

The only thing I can see that might change that response is a World Series victory.

I don't even think a World Series victory does it.
.

Maybe. I think a championship turns everyone playing into heroes. Fans are generally pretty forgiving of anything and everything for about 2 seasons. Even sensitive Toronto fans.

[I_Like_Dirt]

MAybe, we'll have to see. Not too much in the way of recent precedent to determine if Toronto sports fans would allow for a championship to quiet their hatred upon leaving. Edwin might get off a little easier, though, since he's quite a bit more beloved overall than Jose, imo, but I could still see competing boos and cheers should the Jays win the WS and then Edwin jumps to the Red Sox in the offseason.

[Latrell]

I get financials and all that, but it's going to be **** awful if the Jays are without both EE and Bautista next year. Between the bat flip and the pose, they've put their stamp on Jays history. Anyone who turns their back on those guys, should they leave, no matter how hard the feelings, needs to be publicly shamed - maybe bring back town square stocks or something like that.

This is Toronto, both of them will be soundly booed for leaving regardless of the reason. Edwin signing with Boston will be equated to Bosh signing with Miami. If they struggle to hit in the playoffs, they'll be accused of tanking.

The only thing I can see that might change that response is a World Series victory.

The difference between Bosh and EE/Jose is that I'm sure EE/Jose would stay if the $$ meets their wishes. With Bosh you could have offered him 2 max contracts and he still would have left.

[Tacoma]

This is Toronto, both of them will be soundly booed for leaving regardless of the reason. Edwin signing with Boston will be equated to Bosh signing with Miami. If they struggle to hit in the playoffs, they'll be accused of tanking.

The only thing I can see that might change that response is a World Series victory.

I don't even think a World Series victory does it.

And make no mistake, I will understand if they leave and the Jays don't pay them massive contracts, it will just suck to see them go. I mean, yeah the Cardinals were better off letting Pujols walk, but even as a non-Cardinals fan, it just feels awkward watching him in a different uniform. So it will absolutely be understandable, but that isn't going to make it suck any less. And my point was more, as Hater identified, about the many people who will invariably vilify them when they leave. They could both go to Boston together and I wouldn't care. What they've done for the Jays has been brilliant.

I think this depiction of Toronto fans is inaccurate. Both Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter got a rousing homecoming reception. On the sans world title side, off the top of my head to name a few, Roy Halladay got a standing ovation, as did Phaneuf and Sundin on the Leafs side and Amir Johnson on the Raptors side. I expect no less for Edwin and José's homecoming, should it ever happen.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Alomar and Carter were decades ago. Phaneuf, Amir, etc. are a different type of gritty role player that tends to get a LOT of support amongst Toronto sports fans. Halladay did get a standing O, so that's a positive sign, although iirc by the end of that game fans were basically booing every strike he threw. As far as inaccurate, I tend to think Toronto sports fans tend to very easily vilify star skill players and worship grinder-type utility players who punch above their weight. Of course, it isn't universal, and is a generalization, but I still think it's pretty accurate. In this particular case, we already saw how quickly a lot of fans turned on Bautista last offseason, and some of that even trickled over to Edwin.

[Santoki]

This is Toronto, both of them will be soundly booed for leaving regardless of the reason. Edwin signing with Boston will be equated to Bosh signing with Miami. If they struggle to hit in the playoffs, they'll be accused of tanking.

The only thing I can see that might change that response is a World Series victory.

I don't even think a World Series victory does it.

And make no mistake, I will understand if they leave and the Jays don't pay them massive contracts, it will just suck to see them go. I mean, yeah the Cardinals were better off letting Pujols walk, but even as a non-Cardinals fan, it just feels awkward watching him in a different uniform. So it will absolutely be understandable, but that isn't going to make it suck any less. And my point was more, as Hater identified, about the many people who will invariably vilify them when they leave. They could both go to Boston together and I wouldn't care. What they've done for the Jays has been brilliant.

I think this depiction of Toronto fans is inaccurate. Both Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter got a rousing homecoming reception. On the sans world title side, off the top of my head to name a few, Roy Halladay got a standing ovation, as did Phaneuf and Sundin on the Leafs side and Amir Johnson on the Raptors side. I expect no less for Edwin and José's homecoming, should it ever happen.

Even Price who had 10x less history here and went to Boston for more money wasn't booed.

[Fairview4Life]

Edwin and Jose will not get booed in Toronto. Jose could **** on the flag and get cheered.