Season in review/grades

[StopitLeo]

How many number 5 starters were better than Dickey?

We've been over this at length on this board already. Dickey put up a 0.4 WAR in 169 innings this year, and Thole's WAR was -0.8. Together they were a net negative. The only reason Dickey kept his job as long as he did (losing it eventually in September) is due to his salary.

2 problems with this theory. Most #5 SP's put up negative wars and most #2 catchers are terrible too. You need to put this into that context.

The biggest issue with Dickey was that he pitched poorly after the allstar break. He had a sub 4.00 ERA prior to the break.

You're right on. Just looking at the guys who finished the season, Liriano, who I presume will be considered our 5th starter, had a negative WAR in Pittsburg (0.7 in Toronto) while Navarro had a negative WAR in Chicago.

I think some fans are expecting too much from a 5th starter and backup catcher just because ours was the tandem of Dickey and Thole. Fifth starters and backup catchers are basically there to: 1) give the other guys in the rotation and the everyday catcher rest, and 2) hopefully do an adequate enough job (neutral WAR) to allow the team a chance to win.

[Yogz_GM]

Shapiro/Atkins had a pretty solid first year. They came into a situation where the fanbase and hype was higher than it had ever been in 20+ years. They faced a lot of pressure and a lot of guys who wanted to get insanely overpaid and they didn't budge.

Losing David Price hurt the fanbase right out the gate but replacing him with Happ at a much affordable deal while retaining Estrada and getting Liriano on a good deal were great decisions.

Not overpaying Jose after his playoff run last year was smart although not sure if any other teams would've budged to his insane demands. It's time to let the fan favorite go and I think Shapiro/Atkins are the perfect guys to say "well thank you for what you've done but we're going in a different direction". They've proven they won't overpay based on emotion or fan hype, and in this case I'm happy.

Encarnacion should've been locked up last year and he bet on himself and won big time. Whether we retain him or not will be a big question. I feel if you retain EE you have a shot at moving forward without Jose, Dickey and other aging players that aren't working as well. Lose EE and it looks like it might be a slow rebuild. Depends if you can lure any big free agents here.

We'll have to wait and see but I can say that I trust Shapiro/Atkins this time around more than I did last time.

Someone above talked about situational awareness at the plate. What about situational awareness In the front office. Last years team had way more fun out there it seems, and fell short due to "circumstances "
Giving up on a clubhouse leader like David Price, ok I understand you got equivalent production out of others, but I feel we had no leader in the clubhouse. Ok so let Price go. What about respecting our team captains JB and EE by investing in this very winnable World Series season by at least making a serious offer or two. Who knows if Jose without that contract hanging over his head might be loose and hit like he should have. Show them some love and hey we might have won a World Series instead of tread milling it and carefully planning for a down the line if it ever comes WS. It's all about momentum.



Shatkins: C

For not capitalizing on momentum, and playing conservatively when they should have been opportunistic. They are not an F because they made some good deals and pickups. Any mgmt team who doesn't smell a WS win after last year won't ever get you one, because they are not 100% about winning.

[The_Hater]

Shapiro/Atkins had a pretty solid first year. They came into a situation where the fanbase and hype was higher than it had ever been in 20+ years. They faced a lot of pressure and a lot of guys who wanted to get insanely overpaid and they didn't budge.

Losing David Price hurt the fanbase right out the gate but replacing him with Happ at a much affordable deal while retaining Estrada and getting Liriano on a good deal were great decisions.

Not overpaying Jose after his playoff run last year was smart although not sure if any other teams would've budged to his insane demands. It's time to let the fan favorite go and I think Shapiro/Atkins are the perfect guys to say "well thank you for what you've done but we're going in a different direction". They've proven they won't overpay based on emotion or fan hype, and in this case I'm happy.

Encarnacion should've been locked up last year and he bet on himself and won big time. Whether we retain him or not will be a big question. I feel if you retain EE you have a shot at moving forward without Jose, Dickey and other aging players that aren't working as well. Lose EE and it looks like it might be a slow rebuild. Depends if you can lure any big free agents here.

We'll have to wait and see but I can say that I trust Shapiro/Atkins this time around more than I did last time.

Someone above talked about situational awareness at the plate. What about situational awareness In the front office. Last years team had way more fun out there it seems, and fell short due to "circumstances "
Giving up on a clubhouse leader like David Price, ok I understand you got equivalent production out of others, but I feel we had no leader in the clubhouse. Ok so let Price go. What about respecting our team captains JB and EE by investing in this very winnable World Series season by at least making a serious offer or two. Who knows if Jose without that contract hanging over his head might be loose and hit like he should have. Show them some love and hey we might have won a World Series instead of tread milling it and carefully planning for a down the line if it ever comes WS. It's all about momentum.



Shatkins: C

For not capitalizing on momentum, and playing conservatively when they should have been opportunistic. They are not an F because they made some good deals and pickups. Any mgmt team who doesn't smell a WS win after last year won't ever get you one, because they are not 100% about winning.

They weren't being conservative. When the previous GM empties the cupboard the previous deadline it's not like you have a lot of prospects left to trade a year later. AA emptied the clip. The previous trade deadline was an anomaly that you should never expect to see again and a poor scale to use grading any GM

[PopAGat]

As much as people have killed David Price for his post season success and this year in Boston, I really loved what he brought to Toronto.

His character is probably one of the best I've ever seen/heard. In the few months he was here as a Blue Jay (or mercenary, however you see it), he embraced this city like I've never seen before. His IG posts, on twitter, his TV interviews, his on-field demeanour. Everything.

I thought it was great especially since he's a top 10 pitcher in the league. (Still believe he is despite an off year this year).
All those that covered the Jays like Shi Davidi and Barry Davis said that him and Mark Lowe were two guys that the rest of the team really loved. And I could see why.

I think that fun aspect was a bit lost this year. If Price had stayed in Toronto and signed a 4-5 year deal, he would probably end up loving the city on the same level Amir Johnson did.

[pingpongrac]

As much as people have killed David Price for his post season success and this year in Boston, I really loved what he brought to Toronto.

His character is probably one of the best I've ever seen/heard. In the few months he was here as a Blue Jay (or mercenary, however you see it), he embraced this city like I've never seen before. His IG posts, on twitter, his TV interviews, his on-field demeanour. Everything.

I thought it was great especially since he's a top 10 pitcher in the league. (Still believe he is despite an off year this year).
All those that covered the Jays like Shi Davidi and Barry Davis said that him and Mark Lowe were two guys that the rest of the team really loved. And I could see why.

I think that fun aspect was a bit lost this year. If Price had stayed in Toronto and signed a 4-5 year deal, he would probably end up loving the city on the same level Amir Johnson did.

I somewhat agree, but the "fun" aspect that was missing a bit this year had more to do with us not having an 11-game winning streak/going on a ridiculous run over two whole months. Just for a little perspective, over their last 61 games after Tulo joined the team last year, the Jays went 43-18, which projects to 114-48 over an entire season. Their best stretch this year was over a much smaller span (28 games; 20-8) and, with the exception of a few games, they weren't blowing teams out like last year.

[Wo1verine]

Blue Jays GM Ross Atkins end-of-season conference is today at 3.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/watch-live-blue-jays-gm-ross-atkins-end-season-conference/

[CrookedJ]

I have been wanted to put some words down on this and I think enough time has passed that I can do so without freaking out too much.

Overall, this season was a massive success. Second ALCS in a row doesn't happen by accident.
I feel that our weaknesses really got overemphasized last week, as is often the case when a team loses and makes us feel sad : (

Starting Pitching A+
This really could not have gone better.
We had the most innings pitched and the best ERA. Top three were outstanding. Stroman was solid and Liriano was a very nice addition. Dickey was good for a 5th guy, somebody has to be your worst guy.

Bullpen C+-
Osuna is excellent. Biagini really helped get us there, with Grilli and Benoit being good additions. Everyone else was somewhere between inconsistent and terrible.
The real issue is that it took us until August to really have the bullpen organized. Cecil was just awful in April ( 5 losses in the month!) and even though by the end of the season his numbers weren't bad, the early season collapse of him and Storen made us rethink the whole bullpen.
Liked what I saw from Danny Barnes as a call up.

Offense A -
OBP and Slugging were excellent, we walked a ton but struck out way too much as well. Plenty of dingers!
We struck out at key times, with runners on, but thats really just a product of having a lot of baserunners and a lot of strike outs. We lead the league in grounding into double plays despite having a low ground ball percentage.
Donaldson, Edwin were amazing.
Jose, Tulo , Saunders and had their moments but were inconsistent. Martin was a step below them.
Devon Travis still has a lot of potential but he can`t stay healthy.
Kevin Pillar is a bottom 5 starter in MLB offensively. Upton was waaaay down there as well.

Defence A-
Infield defence was excellent and Pillar was arguably the best defensive player in baseball. Martin was excellent, as were Donaldson and Tulo. Travis solid.
The outfield corners were awful, major area of concern for next season. Bad routes, dropped balls, soft tossing etc. Edwin was passable a first.

Gibby: B +
He's solid, the players like him and every post game presser makes me thing Boomhauer is our coach. He is slower to change the order, lineup or bullpen usage than most fans would like, but thats part of what players like about him - predictable roles. He is good at staying out of their way.

Shapiro / Atkins: A
I think the new front office was outstanding. They came in to what was a potential no-win situation replaced a beloved GM on a team that was thought to be peaking, and got them there again. The pitching moves were great. When it didn't work ( Storen, Morales) they pivoted quickly. Grilli, Benoit were great in season ads. Upton, meh. Liriano deal was awesome. I want to see more deals like that - decent players with bad deals that small market teams want to drop. We grabbed two excellent prospects to pick him up.

Off season priorities and questions
1. Jose I am fine with offering Jose the QO and its up to him. Do not want anything beyond that. Love the guy but he is on a serious decline and should be a DH only.
2. Edwin was great at the plate, and is usable at first base. I would def pay him. He has been remarkably consistent for past 5 season, and he still has a few good seasons.
3. Outfielders. We need to add two new starting outfielders. Maybe Pompey or Carrera can be one of them. There is no way that we should be in the bottom 3rd of the league for OF production WHILE still having everyone as a negative fielder other than Pillar. Josh Reddick, Dexter Fowler, getting some hype. I am not good at projecting FAs.
4. Bullpen - need to keep upgrading, but also be flexible. Grilli has an option for a decent price, I think he'd want to stay. Cecil on the balance is probably worth keeping as well. We need at least two other good options though beyond Osuna and Biagini.

[johanliebert]

First and foremost, I'd like to say that it's been a lot of fun watching this team compete for the past 2 seasons. Last year with how we turned around our roster and this year where we maintained our dominance despite a difficult AL East.

Our starting pitchers were absolutely fantastic. Stroman, Sanchez, Happ, Estrada, Liriano, Dickey (at times). I feel optimistic knowing we have Sanchez as our regular starter this year and hopefully an improved Stroman (he looked great near the end of the year).

Our Bullpen was a bit disappointing. I didn't like the Revere for Storen trade at all. I thought Revere gave us the few things we lacked in contact hitting/high average hitter and speed on the bases. Regardless, I felt he addressed a huge need at the end of the pen but some part of me had this feeling he was going to be awful given how he finished last year. That being said, I'm glad Storen ended up being Benoit. Benoit was solid for us when he pitched but it was unfortunate how his season ended.

Iceman Osuna was fantastic (and just 21 years old!). Also give credit to Cecil who had it going during the second half of the season and Biagini who we wouldn't have secured a few wins without.

Our offense: Great. Donaldson, EE, Tulo, Travis played great. Bautista was injured which was unfortunate and the rest of the guys performed as expected.

Next steps:

The Jays need to learn to play small ball. If you look at it, the same guys got hits for us all series--Donaldson and Saunders.

It's clear that the power game does not work in the playoffs. Look at any World Series team in the past 5-7 years. They all were efficient bats that hit in that .275+ range and were guys that got on base (not bombed HRs). KC last year gave me nightmares because of how they could get on base and terrorize us by their running game. In the playoffs, its the base stealing, the timely singles that count.

Throughout the series I saw guys taking really hard swings at the ball which I thought was the wrong approach. That live and die by the HR ball really showed in this series.

We. Need. Speed. And. The. Small. Game.

When we have speed, it makes the game easier for us. Carrera lead-off was evidently very successful. Need a Revere-esque player again.

Offseason needs/general comments (IMO):

- Bullpen. And bullpen stability. No more loaning relievers. Grilli, Benoit, great pickups. But I'd like some consistency and youth in the pen.

- Time to let the Bautista ship sail. JB cannot field anymore and his arm isn't what it used to be. I don't think they should pay 20M+ for a .230-.250 power hitter that's unable to field. EE proved he can play decent D at first so I'd rather keep him (and he's younger).

- Find a 6th starter if we're going to put Sanchez on the innings limit again. I still don't think we should run him 200 innings next year. Would cap him at 180 IP.

- Hopefully the hitting coaches can help Upton revive his offensive game a little. I like what he brings in the field, and on the bases though.

- If the price is right, keep Saunders. I like his opposite field power and his ability to hit to different parts of the field. A very unique skill.

Grades:

Starting pitching: A
Bullpen: B-
Offense: B+

Defense: A
Donaldson and Tulo are incredibly fun to watch.

Gibby: B+
Did good with what he was given.

Shapiro: B+

I'm not a big fan of him because I know he's got a reputation as a cheapskate which would be a bad thing given our potentially expensive team.

But I must admit, he had a great first season. But he got us starting pitching that performed great. That 30 M that everyone wanted to pay David Price went to Liriano, Happ, Estrada. Good move. Anxious to see how he deals with the pressures of this off-season.

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Probably missed a lot of but just wanted to briefly go over the season. I want to hear what you guys think!

oh where was Donaldson last year? where was all this talk when ee/joey lit it up vs the rangers?

how does a team who led the league in walks the past two seasons have to get on base more?

you all cant come up with an original thought..everything you say has been told to you. all you zombies gotta say is they need to get one base more(tough they already do a great job) and play small ball(gibby doesn't have the tools). also revere was a awful hitter here only thing he provided was speed check how he did in washingotn this year.

stroman had a great second half