Do you support a Full Rebuild "now"

[DreamTeam09]

What many fans don't understand is that after unloading more than a dozen top prospects in one trade deadline frenzy, you can't do it again. Alex's most valuable trade chips were gone. No other GM is trading off top talent to Alex for a handful of mediocre A ball players.

Not sure how Alex would have made the Jays better, any more than Shapiro did.

what about spending some of the xtra revenue they generated these last few yrs on FA??

Happ, Estrada. Or would you have signed Price?

Those were good deals, I would've resigned EE and not haggle over a few million, I wouldn't of signed smoak last year or be in a rush to sign pearce this year. In a non-cap sport if your're not going to spend then whats the point?

[C Court]

what about spending some of the xtra revenue they generated these last few yrs on FA??

Happ, Estrada. Or would you have signed Price?

Those were good deals, I would've resigned EE and not haggle over a few million, I wouldn't of signed smoak last year or be in a rush to sign pearce this year. In a non-cap sport if your're not going to spend then whats the point?

Edwin signed for $20 million less to go to Cleveland.

[DreamTeam09]

Happ, Estrada. Or would you have signed Price?

Those were good deals, I would've resigned EE and not haggle over a few million, I wouldn't of signed smoak last year or be in a rush to sign pearce this year. In a non-cap sport if your're not going to spend then whats the point?

Edwin signed for $20 million less to go to Cleveland.

3yrs 65 + 5mill buyout for a total of 70mill over 3yrs is not 20 mill less than a 4yr 80mill deal.

[C Court]

Those were good deals, I would've resigned EE and not haggle over a few million, I wouldn't of signed smoak last year or be in a rush to sign pearce this year. In a non-cap sport if your're not going to spend then whats the point?

Edwin signed for $20 million less to go to Cleveland.

3yrs 65 + 5mill buyout for a total of 70mill over 3yrs is not 20 mill less than a 4yr 80mill deal.

Indians offer was 3/$60 and a 4th year team option with a $5M buyout. Realistically the Indians will pay Edwin $65M. They will not likely pay EE $20M in year 4.

The Jays offered 4/$80M + an option year which could have brought the package to $100 million. EE's agent got greedy and thought he could get 5/$125M.

We don't know what the Jays buyout number would be. Lets assume its $5M (reasonable), then any way you look at the numbers, Toronto offered $20M more to Edwin.

[rarefind]

Edwin signed for $20 million less to go to Cleveland.

3yrs 65 + 5mill buyout for a total of 70mill over 3yrs is not 20 mill less than a 4yr 80mill deal.

Indians offer was 3/$60 and a 4th year team option with a $5M buyout. Realistically the Indians will pay Edwin $65M. They will not likely pay EE $20M in year 4.

The Jays offered 4/$80M + an option year which could have brought the package to $100 million. EE's agent got greedy and thought he could get 5/$125M.

We don't know what the Jays buyout number would be. Lets assume its $5M (reasonable), then any way you look at the numbers, Toronto offered $20M more to Edwin.

20m less but a year shorter. Edwin's agent made a terrible error, but we won't know how much it cost Edwin until he hits free agency 3 years from now.

[Skin Blues]

3yrs 65 + 5mill buyout for a total of 70mill over 3yrs is not 20 mill less than a 4yr 80mill deal.

Indians offer was 3/$60 and a 4th year team option with a $5M buyout. Realistically the Indians will pay Edwin $65M. They will not likely pay EE $20M in year 4.

The Jays offered 4/$80M + an option year which could have brought the package to $100 million. EE's agent got greedy and thought he could get 5/$125M.

We don't know what the Jays buyout number would be. Lets assume its $5M (reasonable), then any way you look at the numbers, Toronto offered $20M more to Edwin.

20m less but a year shorter. Edwin's agent made a terrible error, but we won't know how much it cost Edwin until he hits free agency 3 years from now.

Jose Bautista can still kinda sorta play the OF and will have trouble getting $15M this year at age 36. Unless Edwin pulls a Big Papi in his mid 30's, he's not getting anything significant when he's 36 three years from now and a complete defensive and baserunning liability. I can see a possibility of the Indians exercising the option since it'll only cost $15M, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[rarefind]

Indians offer was 3/$60 and a 4th year team option with a $5M buyout. Realistically the Indians will pay Edwin $65M. They will not likely pay EE $20M in year 4.

The Jays offered 4/$80M + an option year which could have brought the package to $100 million. EE's agent got greedy and thought he could get 5/$125M.

We don't know what the Jays buyout number would be. Lets assume its $5M (reasonable), then any way you look at the numbers, Toronto offered $20M more to Edwin.

20m less but a year shorter. Edwin's agent made a terrible error, but we won't know how much it cost Edwin until he hits free agency 3 years from now.

Jose Bautista can still kinda sorta play the OF and will have trouble getting $15M this year at age 36. Unless Edwin pulls a Big Papi in his mid 30's, he's not getting anything significant when he's 36 three years from now and a complete defensive and baserunning liability. I can see a possibility of the Indians exercising the option since it'll only cost $15M, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Unless he cannot play anymore, he'll get similar money, somewhere or get his option picked up. He will probably regret leaving a guaranteed year on the table but his situation isn't nearly as bad as we make it out to be. Him not having to play or run on turf might actually help him and his longevity.

[Skin Blues]

20m less but a year shorter. Edwin's agent made a terrible error, but we won't know how much it cost Edwin until he hits free agency 3 years from now.

Jose Bautista can still kinda sorta play the OF and will have trouble getting $15M this year at age 36. Unless Edwin pulls a Big Papi in his mid 30's, he's not getting anything significant when he's 36 three years from now and a complete defensive and baserunning liability. I can see a possibility of the Indians exercising the option since it'll only cost $15M, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Unless he cannot play anymore, he'll get similar money, somewhere or get his option picked up. He will probably regret leaving a guaranteed year on the table but his situation isn't nearly as bad as we make it out to be. Him not having to play or run on turf might actually help him and his longevity.

I don't think anybody is saying it's a huge mistake. But it will indeed cost him a lot of money. If not the full $15M then likely a large portion of it. It's easy to say "he'll get similar money, somewhere" but his projected value that season, at this point, is south of 1 WAR. Objectively, he will be lucky to get more than $7M in what would have been $20M in the 4th guaranteed year. So, not an enormous mistake, I guess. If you factor in the buyout and the money he'll save in taxes it's probably about a $5M loss in expected salary, give or take.

[RTran85]

This team went to back to back American League Championship Series' and you losers want to blow it up?

Sure it's worth a decade of misery for a top 5 farm system, got to do it!

You make me sick, seriously.

Wow. Harsh but worth saying

I've waited since 1993 when I was only 8 years old to finally attend Blue Jays playoff baseball to witness one of the craziest in game environment ever. I'm not ready for this rebuild nor should any of you guys, we just need to retool and keep this window going.

Honestly our farm system is pretty weak at the moment and it would take years to rebuild.

Toronto sports is at an all time high right now, keep the momentum going.

[Patman]

Those were good deals, I would've resigned EE and not haggle over a few million, I wouldn't of signed smoak last year or be in a rush to sign pearce this year. In a non-cap sport if your're not going to spend then whats the point?

Edwin signed for $20 million less to go to Cleveland.

3yrs 65 + 5mill buyout for a total of 70mill over 3yrs is not 20 mill less than a 4yr 80mill deal.

Your math is wrong. His deal with CLE tops out at 4 yr / $80M if CLE exercises the $25M option for 2020. $80M - $25M = $55M base salary over 3 years. $55M + $5M buyout = $60M he's guaranteed to make regardless of the option.

If CLE exercises option:
2017 to 2019 = $55M
2020 = $25M
total = $80M

If CLE declines:
2017 to 2019 = $55M
buyout = $5M
total = $60M

The deal will only be equally as lucrative as the one we offered IF the Indians accept 2020, which is unlikely. I doubt CLE will spend the extra $20M it will take to keep him around for 2020. They'll just eat the $5M as a sunk cost.

The only other way that this will work out better financially for EE is if CLE buys him out, and he signs elsewhere for at least $20M, which is even less likely than the Indians exercising his option lol.

Bottom line, EE's agent F'd up.

[North_of_Border]

I say let Bautista walk. At this point i don't even sign him for 10 million. I take the draft pick and test my luck.

Sure if he wants to sign a dirt cheap deal, then I consider it. Maybe he rebounds and we can flip him at the deadline.

I'm all in for a rebuild. Let's become like the Cubs, Sox or Yankees. Shapiro was the right choice for the job.

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[MavCarter]

Yeah im all for a rebuild. Barring a miracle this roster has pretty much reached its ceiling imo. The question is, will rogers want to enter a full rebuild and trade away tulo, jd etc or will fans not showing up scare the **** out of them?

[DreamTeam09]

So we are going to have Sanchez, stroman and Osuna pitching for what reason once we rebuild? We're going to send those 3 young studs out there for years to come in a rebuild situation, wasting valuable years of pre-free agency. This organization and fans r confusing to me. (no point on spending money, we can't beat Boston or the wildcard.) this organization is so lame, I can't wait for the fire sale to begin, I definitely won't be around to enjoy it, call me a fake fan, I'll call you blind parrot, just copying the BS the organization is spewing. What a steep drop off this roster is from 2,1 season ago. Really hopes MLSE feels the crunch once fans stop showing up on n off the field. I refuse to support an organization that's more worried about a budget and a bottom line instead of the fans and putting the best product on the field

[North_of_Border]

These Veterans will be moved if Jays fall flat.

- Donaldson would bring back a Gold Mine of prospects in any trade!!!

- Tulo brings a very good return if the Jays eat some of his salary. Maybe a very very good prospect "atleast"

- Martin would be a dump. Eat some salary and take a mid level prospect in return. Move on.

- Morales would be very valuable if he shows he can continue last year's play into next season. Multiple mid level prospects, easy

- Pearce would be in huge demand. Jays had lots of competition.

- Estrada & Happ. If they continue last year's play, get us top prospects. Especially Happ because of the extra year

- Liriano is a wild card. Either he gets us a big return or very little. Depends how he shows up next season.

- Guys like Grilli, Upton etc... will get us low level prospects. That's where Shapiro and Atkins have to look for hidden gems