Bautista is talks with Jays & Realistic now

[dagger]

Basically I think this is more than about money. It's pretty clear management thinks Jose is too much of a pain in the ass and Edwin, although talented, is similar. They are both getting older and are due to regress at large dollar amounts, but I feel that is a somewhat secondary reason for their lack of interest (or, it's labeled as the primary objective reason but it's actually secondary). Even at bargain basement prices, we (and much of the league) are showing as much interest as Demar has of playing defense. Why?

Because they are not well-liked. The umps, the other franchises, feel they are uppity. Now, I think that shows some borderline institutionalized racism/ignorance/etc. on the part of these middle american franchises. Have you ever seen anyone--anyone turn down a player because they are not "well-liked" ? But Jose was. Edwin is clearly not a vilified as Jose, but the concept is the same (probably guilt by association). Shapiro and company want to cut ties with them because they are sick of having to deal with these headaches (lousy borderline strike calls, having to take pot shots because of not ponying up for them, having to cater to them...etc).

I suppose there could be a bit of that but I think the thing is mainly about age, number of years and dollars. Jose and Edwin wanted too much for too many years, and the market is rejecting their demands. The Jays, meanwhile, would prefer to start getting younger - or at least not extend the age/large contract liability any further.

[Santoki]

Basically I think this is more than about money. It's pretty clear management thinks Jose is too much of a pain in the ass and Edwin, although talented, is similar. They are both getting older and are due to regress at large dollar amounts, but I feel that is a somewhat secondary reason for their lack of interest (or, it's labeled as the primary objective reason but it's actually secondary). Even at bargain basement prices, we (and much of the league) are showing as much interest as Demar has of playing defense. Why?

Because they are not well-liked. The umps, the other franchises, feel they are uppity. Now, I think that shows some borderline institutionalized racism/ignorance/etc. on the part of these middle american franchises. Have you ever seen anyone--anyone turn down a player because they are not "well-liked" ? But Jose was. Edwin is clearly not a vilified as Jose, but the concept is the same (probably guilt by association). Shapiro and company want to cut ties with them because they are sick of having to deal with these headaches (lousy borderline strike calls, having to take pot shots because of not ponying up for them, having to cater to them...etc).

I suppose there could be a bit of that but I think the thing is mainly about age, number of years and dollars. Jose and Edwin wanted too much for too many years, and the market is rejecting their demands. The Jays, meanwhile, would prefer to start getting younger - or at least not extend the age/large contract liability any further.

You're overthinking it because they haven't signed on the first day of winter meetings. I would wait a bit before playing the racism card.

[EJaggit]

It's crazy how literally both went into free agency seeking more than what the Jays have offered them and now since they haven't quite gottten what they've wanted we have a chance at signing one of two? That would be great! How good would it be if we brought em both back though? Wow!

[Tigersrule]

It's crazy how literally both went into free agency seeking more than what the Jays have offered them and now since they haven't quite gottten what they've wanted we have a chance at signing one of two? That would be great! How good would it be if we brought em both back though? Wow!

atkins already said very unlikely they resign lol

[The_Hater]

Maybe something like this?

He plays RF against lefties. Upton in left. Pearce at 1st. Morales DH.
He plays 1B/DH against righties. Carrera in right. _____ in left. Morales 1B/DH.

Doubt Pearce sits every game against righties though.

Who is protecting the Blue Jays? Joey Bats has never been Joey Glove... 1B/DH is the only spot for him, but I think the ship has sailed based on the current roster construction

You can still run him at RF.
He'll suck, but Fowler isn't going to fix it much on defense, and is worse on offense IMO.
Fowler's DWAR of 0.3 was his first positive season in the field in the past 6 seasons. Last year looks more like a fluke than any other season.

.

You're looking at Fowler's DWar as a CF. put an average CF in a corner spot and he will look like a near gold glover. (Eg Adam Eaton, Colby Rasmus). With Jose continuaing to decline with age the difference between the two in RF would be fairly massive.

[youreachiteach]

Basically I think this is more than about money. It's pretty clear management thinks Jose is too much of a pain in the ass and Edwin, although talented, is similar. They are both getting older and are due to regress at large dollar amounts, but I feel that is a somewhat secondary reason for their lack of interest (or, it's labeled as the primary objective reason but it's actually secondary). Even at bargain basement prices, we (and much of the league) are showing as much interest as Demar has of playing defense. Why?

Because they are not well-liked. The umps, the other franchises, feel they are uppity. Now, I think that shows some borderline institutionalized racism/ignorance/etc. on the part of these middle american franchises. Have you ever seen anyone--anyone turn down a player because they are not "well-liked" ? But Jose was. Edwin is clearly not a vilified as Jose, but the concept is the same (probably guilt by association). Shapiro and company want to cut ties with them because they are sick of having to deal with these headaches (lousy borderline strike calls, having to take pot shots because of not ponying up for them, having to cater to them...etc).

I suppose there could be a bit of that but I think the thing is mainly about age, number of years and dollars. Jose and Edwin wanted too much for too many years, and the market is rejecting their demands. The Jays, meanwhile, would prefer to start getting younger - or at least not extend the age/large contract liability any further.

You're overthinking it because they haven't signed on the first day of winter meetings. I would wait a bit before playing the racism card.

Fair enough...just never heard anyone turn down a player of his ilk because he isn't "liked". Seems ridiculous to me. And given the uproar about flipgate....I suppose I am adding things up in my mind. Still, that's nuts.

[ldnk]

Who is protecting the Blue Jays? Joey Bats has never been Joey Glove... 1B/DH is the only spot for him, but I think the ship has sailed based on the current roster construction

You can still run him at RF.
He'll suck, but Fowler isn't going to fix it much on defense, and is worse on offense IMO.
Fowler's DWAR of 0.3 was his first positive season in the field in the past 6 seasons. Last year looks more like a fluke than any other season.

.

You're looking at Fowler's DWar as a CF. put an average CF in a corner spot and he will look like a near gold glover. (Eg Adam Eaton, Colby Rasmus). With Jose continuaing to decline with age the difference between the two in RF would be fairly massive.

Fowler has a well below average throwing arm. I doubt that his defense is anything more than adequate in LF/RF. Although I agree with the sentiment of "anything but" when it comes to Jose and the outfield.

[The_Hater]

You can still run him at RF.
He'll suck, but Fowler isn't going to fix it much on defense, and is worse on offense IMO.
Fowler's DWAR of 0.3 was his first positive season in the field in the past 6 seasons. Last year looks more like a fluke than any other season.

.

You're looking at Fowler's DWar as a CF. put an average CF in a corner spot and he will look like a near gold glover. (Eg Adam Eaton, Colby Rasmus). With Jose continuaing to decline with age the difference between the two in RF would be fairly massive.

Fowler has a well below average throwing arm. I doubt that his defense is anything more than adequate in LF/RF. Although I agree with the sentiment of "anything but" when it comes to Jose and the outfield.

His arm should be far less of an issue in LF than in CF and when you put CF range on the corners they tend to look pretty good compared to their peers. Can't imagine he wouldn't be well above average. Rasmus moved to LF last season and went from -0.1 to 1.8 dwar. Eaton had a similar jump going to RF. I'm sure if we checked all CF's moving to corners over the years we'd see similar jumps.

[Santoki]

I suppose there could be a bit of that but I think the thing is mainly about age, number of years and dollars. Jose and Edwin wanted too much for too many years, and the market is rejecting their demands. The Jays, meanwhile, would prefer to start getting younger - or at least not extend the age/large contract liability any further.

You're overthinking it because they haven't signed on the first day of winter meetings. I would wait a bit before playing the racism card.

Fair enough...just never heard anyone turn down a player of his ilk because he isn't "liked". Seems ridiculous to me. And given the uproar about flipgate....I suppose I am adding things up in my mind. Still, that's nuts.

I still think it was just Duquette's way of saying they had no interest in him at his price point, but it also gains some brownie points with the fans. It was dumb, but I doubt he was being 100% truthful about the reason.

[EastBayBoy]

You're overthinking it because they haven't signed on the first day of winter meetings. I would wait a bit before playing the racism card.

Fair enough...just never heard anyone turn down a player of his ilk because he isn't "liked". Seems ridiculous to me. And given the uproar about flipgate....I suppose I am adding things up in my mind. Still, that's nuts.

I still think it was just Duquette's way of saying they had no interest in him at his price point, but it also gains some brownie points with the fans. It was dumb, but I doubt he was being 100% truthful about the reason.

All of Baltimore is still salty about the wild card game

[RalphWiggum]

Who is protecting the Blue Jays? Joey Bats has never been Joey Glove... 1B/DH is the only spot for him, but I think the ship has sailed based on the current roster construction

You can still run him at RF.
He'll suck, but Fowler isn't going to fix it much on defense, and is worse on offense IMO.
Fowler's DWAR of 0.3 was his first positive season in the field in the past 6 seasons. Last year looks more like a fluke than any other season.

.

You're looking at Fowler's DWar as a CF. put an average CF in a corner spot and he will look like a near gold glover. (Eg Adam Eaton, Colby Rasmus). With Jose continuaing to decline with age the difference between the two in RF would be fairly massive.

You have figure Fowler would probably save us around a dozen runs over the course of a season over Jose. It'd also help Pillar with him not having to shade a touch to right to cover up for Jose's deficiencies.

[The_Hater]

You can still run him at RF.
He'll suck, but Fowler isn't going to fix it much on defense, and is worse on offense IMO.
Fowler's DWAR of 0.3 was his first positive season in the field in the past 6 seasons. Last year looks more like a fluke than any other season.

.

You're looking at Fowler's DWar as a CF. put an average CF in a corner spot and he will look like a near gold glover. (Eg Adam Eaton, Colby Rasmus). With Jose continuaing to decline with age the difference between the two in RF would be fairly massive.

You have figure Fowler would probably save us around a dozen runs over the course of a season over Jose. It'd also help Pillar with him not having to shade a touch to right to cover up for Jose's deficiencies.

When Saunders was in left, Pillar didn't know which way to shade over.

[EJaggit]

It's crazy how literally both went into free agency seeking more than what the Jays have offered them and now since they haven't quite gottten what they've wanted we have a chance at signing one of two? That would be great! How good would it be if we brought em both back though? Wow!

atkins already said very unlikely they resign lol

Yeah well with the way FA's have been moving it's very likely well get JOSE back and maybe Edwin, sounds crazy but it's possible.

[North_of_Border]

Jays need Jose to sign a safe, cheap short 2 year deal. Say 11 million in year 1 with a team option of 17 million in year two. 2 million buy out. That ways Jays stay safe. If he rebounds, he gets paid the season after. If not Jays move on. Win win move.

However, if Jose keeps demanding a 1 year deal that exceeds the 17 million he was offered, let him walk. Bye Bye..... it's rumored he wants a 17+ 1 year deal from Toronto now.