BLC forsook us: Rays @ Jays, like 2 hrs ago - June 14

[JaysRule15]

Three more guaranteed seasons. As of right now, we owe him almost exactly $70m.

Safe to say he will retire as a Jay. Nobody is touching that albatross of a contract. Yikes!

And Jeff Hoffman is pitching like Cy Young down in Colorado. Another stud ex-Jays pitcher plying his trade for someone else.

AA quit on the Jays because he knew all those short sighted trades that made Jay's fans happy in 2015 were going to bite us in the arse before long.

I would And1 this 10 times if I could. It's hilarious how some casuals still look at AA as a hero and are convinced that Shapiro is to blame for the mess AA left behind when he bolted.

Hoffman wasn't as hyped as Syndergaard while he was in the minors and we traded him for a "sexy" name in Tulo, so a lot of people give AA a pass for the trade. But it's worth noting that Hoffman was projected by some scouts to go first overall before he had TJ surgery. He always had frontline starter potential.

[The_Hater]

Safe to say he will retire as a Jay. Nobody is touching that albatross of a contract. Yikes!

And Jeff Hoffman is pitching like Cy Young down in Colorado. Another stud ex-Jays pitcher plying his trade for someone else.

AA quit on the Jays because he knew all those short sighted trades that made Jay's fans happy in 2015 were going to bite us in the arse before long.

I would And1 this 10 times if I could. It's hilarious how some casuals still look at AA as a hero and are convinced that Shapiro is to blame for the mess AA left behind when he bolted.

Hoffman wasn't as hyped as Syndergaard while he was in the minors and we traded him for a "sexy" name in Tulo, so a lot of people give AA a pass for the trade. But it's worth noting that Hoffman was projected by some scouts to go first overall before he had TJ surgery. He always had frontline starter potential.

I remember a lot of people on this board insisting on how incredible the Tulo trade was in 2015-16. And I remember a lot people debating back that it was way worse than the David Price trade. I never took sides because I didn't know enough about Hoffman and was fairly bullish in Tulo remaining an elite hitter if not an elite defensive SS.

Apparently it didn't take very long to settle a winner in that debate.

[Al_Oliver]

And Jeff Hoffman is pitching like Cy Young down in Colorado. Another stud ex-Jays pitcher plying his trade for someone else.

AA quit on the Jays because he knew all those short sighted trades that made Jay's fans happy in 2015 were going to bite us in the arse before long.

I would And1 this 10 times if I could. It's hilarious how some casuals still look at AA as a hero and are convinced that Shapiro is to blame for the mess AA left behind when he bolted.

Hoffman wasn't as hyped as Syndergaard while he was in the minors and we traded him for a "sexy" name in Tulo, so a lot of people give AA a pass for the trade. But it's worth noting that Hoffman was projected by some scouts to go first overall before he had TJ surgery. He always had frontline starter potential.

I remember a lot of people on this board insisting on how incredible the Tulo trade was in 2015-16. And I remember a lot people debating back that it was way worse than the David Price trade. I never took sides because I didn't know enough about Hoffman and was fairly bullish in Tulo remaining an elite hitter if not an elite defensive SS.

Apparently it didn't take very long to settle a winner in that debate.

At least Castro flamed out... but still, Rockies received more than Hoffman in that deal and we got a gut punch for years to come. Good times

[JaysRule15]

Tulo helped us make the playoffs and we were stuck paying Reyes anyway, so if you look at it from that point of view, the trade wasn't completely one-sided. Still hurts to see another potential top starter in Hoffman get away though.

Surprising to see Castro flame out. He had a lot of potential. His lack of secondary pitches did him in. Injuries didn't help either.

[s e n s i]

yeah, big part of why some were thrilled with the tulo trade was it got us off the hook for reyes' supposedly unmovable monster contract. think we all agreed at the time that tulo's deal would be a total albatross (if it wasn't already) as soon as two years later, the latter end of that deal, which is where we're at now, but that (plus hoffman, norris, boyd, whatever else we traded at the 2015 deadline) would be the cost of two playoff, and ultimately ALCS appearances . and even though he probably won't come close this year and next couple, tulo somehow earned his pay last year, whereas reyes hasn't come remotely close either to earning the $22m he was due annually since 2015.

[protothe]

Safe to say he will retire as a Jay. Nobody is touching that albatross of a contract. Yikes!

And Jeff Hoffman is pitching like Cy Young down in Colorado. Another stud ex-Jays pitcher plying his trade for someone else.

AA quit on the Jays because he knew all those short sighted trades that made Jay's fans happy in 2015 were going to bite us in the arse before long.

I would And1 this 10 times if I could. It's hilarious how some casuals still look at AA as a hero and are convinced that Shapiro is to blame for the mess AA left behind when he bolted.

Hoffman wasn't as hyped as Syndergaard while he was in the minors and we traded him for a "sexy" name in Tulo, so a lot of people give AA a pass for the trade. But it's worth noting that Hoffman was projected by some scouts to go first overall before he had TJ surgery. He always had frontline starter potential.

He was projected to go higher, but then his elbow did give out. He did struggle in the minors even after that, so I can easily see why Jays traded him. He was not the same pitcher he once was at that point so his prospect status was dropping fast. Nobody foresaw what he's doing in the MLB right now. His 2016 was also ****. He didn't turn it around until this year in AAA, although with a small sample size.

Hindsight is 20/20, but give him at least a year of being anything resembling good before judging the trade.
He was basically a washed up prospect until this year.

[-MetA4-]

He was projected to go higher, but then his elbow did give out. He did struggle in the minors even after that, so I can easily see why Jays traded him. He was not the same pitcher he once was at that point so his prospect status was dropping fast. Nobody foresaw what he's doing in the MLB right now. His 2016 was also ****. He didn't turn it around until this year in AAA, although with a small sample size.

Hindsight is 20/20, but give him at least a year of being anything resembling good before judging the trade.
He was basically a washed up prospect until this year.

Yeah right. Please remember that Hoffman was still in the recovery period from TJ while he was in the minors, on top of on-going debate over WTF we were doing with his delivery and mechanics (ie: we were tinkering with him). Just because he was back pitching, doesn't mean that his stuff/command was back to where it was pre-injury. So while his minor league numbers really weren't blowing anyone away, we have good explanation for why that was the case. If Aaron Sanchez teaches you anything, its that pitchers with that elite level of ability can turn things around incredibly quickly. You say that nobody foresaw what he's doing now and yet he headlined the trade for Tulowitzki who at the time still carried a lot of value. They clearly weren't trading Tulo because they really wanted Reyes, or even Castro, so obviously there was still extremely high hope in Hoffman.

[jaymeister15]

Doesn't look like it will be a great trade by any means, but you can't gloss over that a large part of the trade was getting rid of Reyes quickly declining (or declined depending on how you look at it) defense and bat along with the salary. It's possible the jays still make the runs they did the last couple years with him instead of Tulo, but it seems a lot less likely.

Colorado ate $40M of his salary just to get rid of him and he is hitting .187% this season.

[Skin Blues]

We also took on $20M/year through 2021 for Tulo which at least partially balances out the $40M from Reyes. Tulo is obviously a much better player and so far has been worth the $20M but the same probably won't be true for the last 3 or 4 years of his contract. I think we assumed he would be paid overall about what he was worth for the time we had him, but his value went downhill almost immediately when we got him.

[Schad]

Wasn't in a sample size large enough to be sure, but it definitely looks like Tulo's value dropped in the months before we got him. He was on pace to post less than 2 fWAR with the Rockies when we acquired him, but rebounded enough that in the past two seasons he has (just) been worth his salary. He won't be worth his salary in the future.

[Ong_dynasty]

I don't think the trade was bad. We got to the playoffs and had a real chance of going all the way.
You need to make those trades sometimes..
And as why people say, we also gave them Reyes. So...I think at the time when you look at value.. It made a lot of sense why we did it