"Expect Glaus and AJ to be Traded"

[Michael Bradley]

In 7 of Burnett's 15 starts this year, he threw 118, 113, 116, 118, 127, 118, and 131 pitches. In his last two starts, he left early due to injury. So essentially, in nearly 55% of his non-injury related starts this year, he's rung up an average of 120 pitches per start. For a pitcher with Burnett's injury history, that's irresponsible management by Gibbons/Arnsberg. That's not a toughness issue. That's a management issue. Burnett when healthy was relatively good. That doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him (in the off-season) if the right package came along, but he's not an albatross (yet).

The problem with trading for Toronto is that they have very little to trade. Their biggest assets are players they can't afford to move (Halladay, Rios, Hill, McGowan, etc), and their farm system is not the "sexy" system that could get star players in trades. In fact, the Jays system has more value to the Jays than to other teams. That's a tough spot to be in because it forces them to either 1) use those prospects to plug MLB holes, or 2) go the free agent route. With the market the way it is, free agency should be out of the question (see Thomas, Frank). So the only option left is to put Lind in LF, Thigpen at catcher with Zaun, and fill out of the rotation and bullpen with guys like McGowan, Marcum, Accardo, Janssen, League, Litsch, and so on.

If guys like Romero and Purcey had ANY value right now, I'd have no issue with trading them for immediate help. That's just not reality.

[tsherkin]

In 7 of Burnett's 15 starts this year, he threw 118, 113, 116, 118, 127, 118, and 131 pitches. In his last two starts, he left early due to injury. So essentially, in nearly 55% of his non-injury related starts this year, he's rung up an average of 120 pitches per start. For a pitcher with Burnett's injury history, that's irresponsible management by Gibbons/Arnsberg. That's not a toughness issue. That's a management issue. Burnett when healthy was relatively good. That doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him (in the off-season) if the right package came along, but he's not an albatross (yet).

This is a reasonably fair point but it does somewhat pale next to the number of innings and games pitched by pitchers in the years leading up to the current era.

120 pitches really isn't anything; pitch counts and lower numbers of starts are meant to avoid major injury and help the back end of a pitcher's career, not the present (save for the injury concern).

But hundreds of pitchers logged significantly more pitches and starts than what Burnett is experiencing now. He's frail, it's a fact of his body and whoever has him on their roster has to contend with that flaw. Management should understand that Burnett can't handle that volume of pitches, to be sure and, understanding that he's a glass man, they should cap his pitch count closer to 90 and ensure that he gets at least 5 days rest between starts, but it's still ultimately a frail body that is the root cause of his injury issues.

And even when he's healthy, he's nothing spectacular as a pitcher.

The problem with trading for Toronto is that they have very little to trade. Their biggest assets are players they can't afford to move (Halladay, Rios, Hill, McGowan, etc), and their farm system is not the "sexy" system that could get star players in trades. In fact, the Jays system has more value to the Jays than to other teams. That's a tough spot to be in because it forces them to either 1) use those prospects to plug MLB holes, or 2) go the free agent route. With the market the way it is, free agency should be out of the question (see Thomas, Frank). So the only option left is to put Lind in LF, Thigpen at catcher with Zaun, and fill out of the rotation and bullpen with guys like McGowan, Marcum, Accardo, Janssen, League, Litsch, and so on.

If guys like Romero and Purcey had ANY value right now, I'd have no issue with trading them for immediate help. That's just not reality.

This, I completely agree with; in fact, I already touched on some of this before. The lack of eminently tradeable assets is the main reason why Glaus and Burnett are in focus here.

[SmallTownJournalist303]

It's not much when you compare to past eras, but 120 pitches on a consistent basis is WAY too much for a pitcher regardless of age, especially one with Burnett's significant injury history. Unless the pitcher in question is a guy like Livan Hernandez who has proven to have a rubber arm and can rack up huge pitch counts on a regular basis, then a player's pitch count should be capped at around 110 with rare occasions when they go slightly over.

[tsherkin]

It's not much when you compare to past eras, but 120 pitches on a consistent basis is WAY too much for a pitcher regardless of age, especially one with Burnett's significant injury history. Unless the pitcher in question is a guy like Livan Hernandez who has proven to have a rubber arm and can rack up huge pitch counts on a regular basis, then a player's pitch count should be capped at around 110 with rare occasions when they go slightly over.

Yeah, I completely agree that Burnett should never pitch that much because of his injury history and that it's a management error.

BUt excessive pitch count isn't his problem, that's all I'm saying. That's just forcing the issue more than is necessary.

[OldNo7]

I said it like, a month ago, that Gibbons was doing a terrible job of managing his pitch counts. My recommendation was, if activated, keep him on a 90 pitch limit for the rest of the season so as not to wear him out, and then you can get him back to 100 next season.

[SmallTownJournalist303]

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Yeah, I completely agree that Burnett should never pitch that much because of his injury history and that it's a management error.

BUt excessive pitch count isn't his problem, that's all I'm saying. That's just forcing the issue more than is necessary.

No pitcher should throw that many pitches continually throughout a season period. Some pitchers can handle it, but most of them can't.

[tsherkin]

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No pitcher should throw that many pitches continually throughout a season period. Some pitchers can handle it, but most of them can't.

Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree but the important thing is that even when he's not throwing that much, he's a repetitive injury concern and that management isn't the reason he's frail.