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What does a Jays firesale look like?

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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#261 » by SharoneWright » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:25 am

Donaldson for........ Barreto? ;)
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#262 » by The_Hater » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:39 am

Schad wrote:Yeah, this isn't a Shapiro/Atkins plan, that's for sure. But I am disappointed that, in coming here, Shapiro didn't carve out some guarantees of autonomy, because he had to know coming in that Rogers is meddlesome as all hell and views anything beyond three months as a long-term plan.

And worse, it'll fail. Casual fans will get upset that we let Superstar Slugger Jose Bautista walk, assuming we don't re-sign him just to keep people in the seats (which, god knows, we might), and if we finish this season in the basement and start next season poorly, a great many will move on to the next shiny object.


I'm leaving hope thst they're not looking to deal many of these pieces in the summer because they'd rather do it st the winter meetings after many people have renewed their season tickets. At least the players with more than one year left on their contracts and JD.

This is a pretty funny situation though considering how many people came to this board after Shapiro was hired and insisted thst he was going to tear down the Jays after 2015 and enter a perpetual rebuild on a shoestring budget.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#263 » by dagger » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:46 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Schad wrote:Yeah, this isn't a Shapiro/Atkins plan, that's for sure. But I am disappointed that, in coming here, Shapiro didn't carve out some guarantees of autonomy, because he had to know coming in that Rogers is meddlesome as all hell and views anything beyond three months as a long-term plan.

And worse, it'll fail. Casual fans will get upset that we let Superstar Slugger Jose Bautista walk, assuming we don't re-sign him just to keep people in the seats (which, god knows, we might), and if we finish this season in the basement and start next season poorly, a great many will move on to the next shiny object.


I'm leaving hope thst they're not looking to deal many of these pieces in the summer because they'd rather do it st the winter meetings after many people have renewed their season tickets. At least the players with more than one year left on their contracts and JD.

This is a pretty funny situation though considering how many people came to this board after Shapiro was hired and insisted thst he was going to tear down the Jays after 2015 and enter a perpetual rebuild on a shoestring budget.


The way to play it is to start hyping the kids in the minors, and that certainly has started with Bichette/VladJr. Some sports exec once said you either sell steak or you sell sizzle. We had our steak the past two seasons, and now it's time to sell the sizzle. This roaster, er, roster doesn't have enough Grade A beef left to win anything, and next season won't be any different whether they make a pretence at contending or not. The free agent pitching market this winter is weak, so who replaces Estrada and Liriano in the starting lineup - no one, I fear, much better than they are pitching of late. Tulo is a bit below average hitter starting to lose his range on D while earning $21 million. Russell Martin is declining gradually. Bautista, in a bounce back season, is heading for an okay season at the plate but is no longer able to perform at an all-star level. There is a regression risk in Smoak having a career year. I don't see how this team can contend with its toxic combination of age, payroll, and positional ineptitude. It needs an infusion of youth, talent and energy that's probably not going to start arriving until 2019-2020, and it needs to get out from under burdensome contracts, either by eating significant salary or just letting time elapse. Lots of time in Tulo's case.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#264 » by The_Hater » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:11 pm

dagger wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Schad wrote:Yeah, this isn't a Shapiro/Atkins plan, that's for sure. But I am disappointed that, in coming here, Shapiro didn't carve out some guarantees of autonomy, because he had to know coming in that Rogers is meddlesome as all hell and views anything beyond three months as a long-term plan.

And worse, it'll fail. Casual fans will get upset that we let Superstar Slugger Jose Bautista walk, assuming we don't re-sign him just to keep people in the seats (which, god knows, we might), and if we finish this season in the basement and start next season poorly, a great many will move on to the next shiny object.


I'm leaving hope thst they're not looking to deal many of these pieces in the summer because they'd rather do it st the winter meetings after many people have renewed their season tickets. At least the players with more than one year left on their contracts and JD.

This is a pretty funny situation though considering how many people came to this board after Shapiro was hired and insisted thst he was going to tear down the Jays after 2015 and enter a perpetual rebuild on a shoestring budget.


The way to play it is to start hyping the kids in the minors, and that certainly has started with Bichette/VladJr. Some sports exec once said you either sell steak or you sell sizzle. We had our steak the past two seasons, and now it's time to sell the sizzle. This roaster, er, roster doesn't have enough Grade A beef left to win anything, and next season won't be any different whether they make a pretence at contending or not. The free agent pitching market this winter is weak, so who replaces Estrada and Liriano in the starting lineup - no one, I fear, much better than they are pitching of late. Tulo is a bit below average hitter starting to lose his range on D while earning $21 million. Russell Martin is declining gradually. Bautista, in a bounce back season, is heading for an okay season at the plate but is no longer able to perform at an all-star level. There is a regression risk in Smoak having a career year. I don't see how this team can contend with its toxic combination of age, payroll, and positional ineptitude. It needs an infusion of youth, talent and energy that's probably not going to start arriving until 2019-2020, and it needs to get out from under burdensome contracts, either by eating significant salary or just letting time elapse. Lots of time in Tulo's case.


If they trade Estrada, Liriano and others I hope that some of the kids coming back in the deals fill out the rotation. Either way, we've been the oldest team in MLB two straight years now and that doesn't scream 'hold the fort'. After watching Ash and JP countinally retool mediocrity in a middling budget for 15 years I was hopeful we were getting smarter as an organization.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#265 » by polo007 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:36 pm

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TORONTO — It really does seem as if it’s coming down to J.A. Happ, doesn’t it?

This was a lost weekend for the Toronto Blue Jays in more ways than one. Francisco Liriano looked uncomfortable on Saturday before developing a neck issue which could rob him of a start before the trade deadline and might have further diminished his trade value.

Even with the Blue Jays professing not to be in rebuild mode but rather looking to add pieces to help make the now-improbable a little less improbable in 2017 while bolstering their cause in 2018, Liriano and Estrada’s imminent free agency made them pieces around which trade packages could be assembled. Straight up you wouldn’t get much for them. But add in a mid-level prospect and agree to take on some long-term commitments? Who knows? Now … maybe not so much.

As much as contending teams don’t offer much for “projects,” baseball is full of people who think they can reinvent the wheel, so maybe somebody out there thinks they have the key that would make Estrada an asset down the stretch. Liriano? The lack of command that has prevented the Blue Jays from viewing him as a slider-fastball reliever is something that was talked about throughout the league when he was acquired by the Pittsburgh Pirates. That also cuts into his value as perhaps a bullpen piece for another club.

Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports – the GM Whisperer – reported Sunday that the Milwaukee Brewers were eying Happ, but that there were no formal talks nor any indication the Blue Jays were inclined to move him. Happ makes $13 million next season in the final year of a three-year deal, so he’d be perfectly fine as part of the Jays rotation. President and CEO Mark Shapiro and general manager Ross Atkins seem to view the contractual status of Aaron Sanchez, Marcus Stroman and Roberto Osuna as constituting a window that runs through 2020 and any move they make needs to bring in assets that dove-tail with those three as much as possible.

If Sonny Gray and Yu Darvish go off the board and somebody’s willing to overpay at the deadline, then and only then should Happ be a candidate to be moved. Don’t be fooled into thinking he can be replaced this winter in free agency.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#266 » by Schad » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:32 pm

A window running through 2020? Heh, yeah, two starters, a closer, and literally nothing else of value after 2018 will really carry us to glory.

If our management is extremely good, and we're extremely lucky, we might just be able to retool in time for 2020, when those three walk and we begin the process anew.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#267 » by EastBayBoy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:44 pm

Schad wrote:A window running through 2020? Heh, yeah, two starters, a closer, and literally nothing else of value after 2018 will really carry us to glory.



Andrew Walker and Ben Ennis were advocating for retooling this team of punting the rest of 2017 with eyes on 2018, even if it may lead to losing JD in free agency for nothing.



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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#268 » by polo007 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:58 pm

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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#269 » by Ong_dynasty » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:08 pm

What I don't get is..why do we require a ful rebuild?
Why not just do it on the fly? I mean we don't need to trade the likes of stroman and Sanchez. But yea Ofcourse this year is pretty much gone so if we can get something for Bautista,liriano and Estrada..go..
If we get something good for Donaldson sure..and same with the rest..but as long as we don't trade our prospects and carry on with the aggressiveness we have with building our farm..we can try and still put out a competitive team and I find I baseball..you just never know.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#270 » by Schad » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:07 pm

Ong_dynasty wrote:What I don't get is..why do we require a ful rebuild?
Why not just do it on the fly? I mean we don't need to trade the likes of stroman and Sanchez. But yea Ofcourse this year is pretty much gone so if we can get something for Bautista,liriano and Estrada..go..
If we get something good for Donaldson sure..and same with the rest..but as long as we don't trade our prospects and carry on with the aggressiveness we have with building our farm..we can try and still put out a competitive team and I find I baseball..you just never know.


Both are options; it really comes down to what you can get for them.

One issue with rebuilding on the fly is that you have to have the guts to keep doing it if you're "in striking distance"...read, 4 GB of the Wild Card or something as the deadline approaches. Because if you're tied to the whims of ownership, they aren't going to want to make those deals when they can sell false hope to the fanbase and wring a few extra dollars out of people, and suddenly you're watching players walk for nothing and you are no longer rebuilding in any sort of responsible fashion.

Regarding Osuna, Stroman and Sanchez: if we're doing any sort of rebuild, we have to be aware that they may not be here when we're rebuilt. Both have three years remaining after this season, and there's just about zero chance that we can get Sanchez tied down to an extension. Osuna, being a closer, would be extremely expensive and even more risky.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#271 » by polo007 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:36 am

Ken Rosenthal, writer and insider for FOX Sports, joins Bob McCown and Joey Vendetta on Prime Time Sports to talk about the Toronto Blue Jays' potential for trades at the deadline.

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_demand-5/Ken-Rosenthal-on-Prime-Time-Sports-PTS-20170717-Interview.mp3
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#272 » by polo007 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:53 pm

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http://www.tsn.ca/mlb-rumours-should-jays-sell-stroman-osuna-1.807457

If the Toronto Blue Jays front office believes the club is need of major roster changes or even a measured sell-off, ESPN’s Buster Olney says Toronto should consider selling off some of its pitchers. Appearing on Naylor and Landsberg in the Morning today, Olney named pitchers Marcus Stroman, Roberto Osuna and Marco Estrada as potential Blue Jays trade chips.

Stroman has been the best arm in the Blue Jays’ starting rotation this season and has performed well overall with a 3.10 earned run average and a record of 9-5. Olney says that dealing Stroman should return Toronto upper-echelon prospects. He speculates that the Houston Astros, who own the MLB’s best record, would probably be interested in the 26-year-old starter as well as the New York Yankees, if the Blue Jays were willing to trade Stroman to a division rival.

An All-Star this season, 22-year-old Osuna will be eligible for arbitration next season and will become more expensive going forward. Olney says that if the Jays choose to be sellers, even small ones, it would make sense to deal Osuna as the club’s chances of winning in the interim will be reduced.

Estrada has been disappointing this season, posting a 5.33 ERA, which is up from the 3.48 in 2016. The 34-year-old starter’s salary isn’t favourable - he’s owed $4 million for the last two months of the season - but Olney thinks the Jays may be able to move the 10-year veteran because of his experience, if the team is willing to eat some money. He says Estrada could potentially fill out the back-end of a rotation for clubs looking to acquire pitching.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#273 » by Cyrus » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:01 pm

If they Jays were smart they would be trading whatever we can for Happ, Marco Estrada, Joey Bats, Pearce, for decent/good prospects in the Double A level, so they can be timed with Vladdy, Bo, and few others coming in 3-4 years.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#274 » by Skin Blues » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:04 pm

polo007 wrote:Ken Rosenthal, writer and insider for FOX Sports, joins Bob McCown and Joey Vendetta on Prime Time Sports to talk about the Toronto Blue Jays' potential for trades at the deadline.

Ken is now only a writer for Facebook, since FOX Sports has gone to an all-video format on their site.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#275 » by North_of_Border » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:20 pm

I can imagine it. Rogers says we gotta compete. Shapiro deals Vlad + Jansen for Sonny Grey.

= championship mindset

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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#276 » by Lateral Quicks » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:06 pm

North_of_Border wrote:I can imagine it. Rogers says we gotta compete. Shapiro deals Vlad + Jansen for Sonny Grey.

= championship mindset

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Shapiro isn't Colangelo.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#277 » by Schad » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:20 pm

There would be some irony if Shapiro decided to faux-compete a la Colangelo because he quite literally wants to (re)build a deck or two in the Dome.
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#278 » by polo007 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:20 am

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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#279 » by polo007 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:43 pm

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With 11 days remaining before the July 31 trade deadline, the Toronto Blue Jays are nearing one of the busiest times of year for a front office. GM Ross Atkins told Sportsnet’s Starting Lineup that the Blue Jays are working to improve the club for 2018 and beyond without subtracting too much from their current team—a challenge that means exploring many possibilities at once.

“You can’t think about three or four potential moves, you have to think about 50 moves,” Atkins told Elliott Price and Greg Brady on Sportsnet 590 The FAN. “We have to think about every possible scenario and every possible way to make this team better.”

While players like Roberto Osuna and Marcus Stroman would no doubt appeal to other teams because of their talent level and remaining years of control, the Blue Jays have made it clear that they don’t plan to part with core pieces. As such, they haven’t been getting lots of unexpected calls from other clubs.

“Executives respect where you are and what your strategy is if you clearly articulate it,” Atkins said.

Eventually the Blue Jays will have to determine whether they’re going to extend Josh Donaldson before the 2018-19 off-season, when he’s eligible for free agency. That may be an off-season conversation, though. For now, Atkins declined to discuss a possible extension in detail.

“We want to do anything and everything we can to make our team better, and we hope that Josh Donaldson is a part of that,” Atkins said.

“We may get occasional phone calls. We have one of the better performing pitchers in baseball right now, Marcus Stroman. Those rumours happen every year when you have one of the better performing players in baseball. We have an incredible closer in Roberto Osuna. Those rumours happen every year because teams would love to add pieces like that. We have one of the better players in baseball in Josh Donaldson. So, rumours come up, but executives respect where you are, what your strategy is if you clearly articulate it. Then they don’t spend a lot of time on kicking your tires. It does happen where they’ll say ‘Is this something we should spend time on?’ and we’ll say ‘No.’ Those calls actually haven’t happened.”
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Re: What does a Jays firesale look like? 

Post#280 » by bballsparkin » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:27 pm

The_Hater wrote:
If they trade Estrada, Liriano and others I hope that some of the kids coming back in the deals fill out the rotation. Either way, we've been the oldest team in MLB two straight years now and that doesn't scream 'hold the fort'. After watching Ash and JP countinally retool mediocrity in a middling budget for 15 years I was hopeful we were getting smarter as an organization.


Yeah exactly. Hopefully the Blue Jays brass is simply being coy to maximize trade value and is not being so shortsighted as in the past.

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