Jays Acquire Tom Koehler

[Schad]

Going the other way is Osman Gutierrez, who was having a terrible season in his first chance at A ball, aged 22. Might have a future as a reliever, but that's probably it.

Koehler has been a tolerable back-end starter whose peripherals suggested that he should be fairly bad. This year, he has been terrible with peripherals that say that he's terrible. Given that he will absolutely be non-tendered in the offseason, I have no idea why we are acquiring him. As a long reliever for our playoff chase that isn't, maybe?

[zilby]

Still only the second-worst trade we've made with the Marlins in the last 5 years. But yeah, not sure what the point of this is, I'm guessing we either need to give the bullpen a break or we need insurance for Rowley/Tepesch. But should've sent cash, not a prospect of any sort, even if Osman is having an awful year.

[Schad]

Yeah, assuming the Marlins aren't kicking in money, it's weird. Not that the expense (about $1.4m) is anything great, but it's about $1.4m more than Koehler is worth, given that we're going nowhere and he'd have been non-tendered no matter what after this season.

[Tanner]

They have Tepesch and Rowley starting games right now. Previously it was Valdez. If Koehler and Anderson start games for this team down the stretch it will be because someone has to, not because they envision them helping in an incredibly unlikely playoff run.

They traded Liriano and optioned Biagini for the privilege of starting below replacement dumpster fire in the rotation. They traded Smith for two prospects. They have no added any 2b/Ss since Tulo went down, instead going with Barney, Goins, and Ref. People need to realize the team has never been "going for it" this summer. Not one move has indicated that they are delusional about their chances. They could have traded for a vet infielder like Asdrubal or a much better pitcher than Koehler. They haven't. They know what the 2017 team is. But they still need someone to eat up innings regardless.

[Lateral Quicks]

Rosters are expanding soon, so bullpen depth will be a non-issue. Koehler is pretty awful. I have no idea why they made this move.

[North_of_Border]

Koehler has a solid track record as a back of the rotation guy. He threw at least 175 inning each of the last three seasons and what you would expect from a 5th starter. Nothing spectacular, but dependable. Not saying he is as good as Happ of course, but he is similar to what AA was looking for in Happ when we got him from Houston.

I think will hold onto Koehler next season. Let him compete for the 6th starter role or long man in the pen.

They didn't give up much. Just investing in a hopeful come back from a veteran.


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[Schad]

They have Tepesch and Rowley starting games right now. Previously it was Valdez. If Koehler and Anderson start games for this team down the stretch it will be because someone has to, not because they envision them helping in an incredibly unlikely playoff run.

They traded Liriano and optioned Biagini for the privilege of starting below replacement dumpster fire in the rotation. They traded Smith for two prospects. They have no added any 2b/Ss since Tulo went down, instead going with Barney, Goins, and Ref. People need to realize the team has never been "going for it" this summer. Not one move has indicated that they are delusional about their chances. They could have traded for a vet infielder like Asdrubal or a much better pitcher than Koehler. They haven't. They know what the 2017 team is. But they still need someone to eat up innings regardless.

Koehler has never been a good innings eater; because his control is shoddy, he throws far too many pitches and tends to exit games early. No pitcher with as many starts as he had last season pitched fewer innings, and his 5.3 IP/start was one of the lowest in baseball.

As for the trades: we absolutely did move players at the deadline, before going on a mini-run that then led us to pull Estrada back off waivers and repeatedly make comments in the media that we believed ourselves to be in the hunt. I don't know that our management actually believes that we're a playoff contender, but they have certainly wanted to suggest that we are.

[Tanner]

They have Tepesch and Rowley starting games right now. Previously it was Valdez. If Koehler and Anderson start games for this team down the stretch it will be because someone has to, not because they envision them helping in an incredibly unlikely playoff run.

They traded Liriano and optioned Biagini for the privilege of starting below replacement dumpster fire in the rotation. They traded Smith for two prospects. They have no added any 2b/Ss since Tulo went down, instead going with Barney, Goins, and Ref. People need to realize the team has never been "going for it" this summer. Not one move has indicated that they are delusional about their chances. They could have traded for a vet infielder like Asdrubal or a much better pitcher than Koehler. They haven't. They know what the 2017 team is. But they still need someone to eat up innings regardless.

Koehler has never been a good innings eater; because his control is shoddy, he throws far too many pitches and tends to exit games early. No pitcher with as many starts as he had last season pitched fewer innings, and his 5.3 IP/start was one of the lowest in baseball.

As for the trades: we absolutely did move players at the deadline, before going on a mini-run that then led us to pull Estrada back off waivers and repeatedly make comments in the media that we believed ourselves to be in the hunt. I don't know that our management actually believes that we're a playoff contender, but they have certainly wanted to suggest that we are.

He had a 3.8 war in four seasons from 2013-16, and ra9war of 5.0 over that same span. He is useful in a #6/depth starter role. That is a huge step up from Tepesch, Valdez, Bolsinger, Latos, and all the other crap that this team has trotted out this season. They need someone to throw innings for the rest of the year, unless you want each member of the pen to have their arms put into a trash compactor. They got him for a nothing prospect. It doesn't signify that they feel they have a chance. It means they needed an arm. Same reason they signed Anderson.

Judge management on actions, not words. They won't publicly concede the season, and there is no reason to. Nothing they have done has signified that they think they have a chance this year. If they did not start the season so poorly and were +.500 right now, then absolutely they would have added, and they should have, but they have been out of it for a while. They want to re-sign Estrada and were not going to get a deal worth moving him and having to deal with another sub replacement scrub in the rotation for two months. Might as well keep him, get his innings for the rest of the year, and then work something out. The alternative was trading him for someone who wouldn't crack our top 30, replacing him in the rotation with TJ House, and then watching the pen have to eat up even more innings than they already have. They made the right call.

[flatjacket1]

Yeah, assuming the Marlins aren't kicking in money, it's weird. Not that the expense (about $1.4m) is anything great, but it's about $1.4m more than Koehler is worth, given that we're going nowhere and he'd have been non-tendered no matter what after this season.

I don't think it is a innings eater type idea but more of a see if he can regain prior form. He is under team control. If he sucks we non-tender him if he's decent we get him on the cheap. We are kind of desperate for starting arms next year, assuming we can't re-sign Estrada (which seems even with his bad season keeping him would cost too much) what you see is really what you get. It is possible (not suggesting it is likely) that Jays scouts have identified an issue with the way he throws, and might try to adjust and see if he can maintain success.

Either way our rotation next year is:
1. Stroman
2. Happ
3. Sanchez
4. Biagini?
5. ????

So can't really blame them for taking a flier.

[Tanner]

Not only is the projected 2018 rotation short on arms, but so is the projected AAA rotation assuming Biagini is in the bigs. They can non tender Koehler and work a deal out with him to come back on a smaller deal. Put him in the pen as a long man/spot starter/whatever Jesse Chavez was in 2016.

[wamco]

1. Trade donaldson . Get a flame throwing to closer type in the deal.
2. Trade osuna

- this may be my plan for offseason. Free up salary to spend on free agents. At least one big sp and of course let Jose go) and acquire some top upper level prospects. Only resign estrada if he finishes strong. Use biagini, Barnes , and a lhp in a committee to close. Team should be competitive in 2018 and better in 2019.

[flatjacket1]

Not only is the projected 2018 rotation short on arms, but so is the projected AAA rotation assuming Biagini is in the bigs. They can non tender Koehler and work a deal out with him to come back on a smaller deal. Put him in the pen as a long man/spot starter/whatever Jesse Chavez was in 2016.

Yeah if we non-tender him we can still work out terms to bring him back.

At this point anyone who has experienced any kind of success at any level will be looked at for the back end of the rotation next year, we just payed 1Mish premium to be able to not only see him up close but be able to bring him back for less if we non-tender.

Not a terrible play but chances are he won't really even be serviceable based on his production this year. Still though no harm in trying.

[polo007]

Read on Twitter

TORONTO – Tom Koehler’s transition to a relief role is one of the many information-gathering exercises looming for the Toronto Blue Jays in the final weeks of the season, and they’re not the only ones intrigued by the idea of seeing the right-hander work out of the bullpen.

“I’m probably as interested and intrigued as they are,” Koehler said Tuesday, a day after throwing a scoreless, 13-pitch eighth inning against the Boston Red Sox. “It’s something I always thought that I could possibly do. I love starting. I love what it takes, the preparation, the routine behind everything. But I’m sure in time (relieving) is something I can learn to do."

“The hardest thing for me is knowing when to do things, when I do a certain lift, or what time I stretch to get ready. There are a lot of unknowns with that. But as far as when you get into the game, the only difference I felt is that the mound wasn’t freshly manicured by the time I got out there.”

Koehler, acquired Aug. 19 from the Miami Marlins for minor-leaguer Osman Gutierrez, broke into the big-leagues with eight relief appearances in 2012 and only transitioned into the rotation a month and a half into the 2013 season. Up until this season he’d been a steady and reliable innings eater for the Marlins, logging 698.1 innings with a 4.14 ERA over the previous four years.

Koehler features a curveball, a slider and a changeup to complement his fastball and learning how to best employ his mix as a reliever is among his challenges. Against the Red Sox, he found himself attacking differently, throwing seven fastballs, five curveballs and one slider.

“The mentality is more you’re trying to get guys out as fast as possible,” he said. “I’m not thinking about maybe now showing a pitch to a guy in case I see him in a big situation two innings later. In that sense, there’s really no wrong pitch as long as you execute, so I do feel like it was more attacking with what I felt was working best at that time, without the thought of what I need to do later in the day.”

Koehler, earning $5.75 million this season, has one year of arbitration eligibility remaining before hitting free agency. A shift in roles carries wider implications for his career, but he understands that “from the Blue Jays’ point of view, there’s enough of a track record for them to know what I am as a starter.”

“Why not take a chance to see about going from a four in the rotation to a really quality bullpen arm?” he said. “I’m looking to do anything that extends my career and allows me to keep pitching."

[wamco]

Hope that positive attitude continues when he is asked to take a 50 percent pay cut to pitch out of relief

[Schad]

Hope that positive attitude continues when he is asked to take a 50 percent pay cut to pitch out of relief

A 50% pay cut would still leave us paying him far too much. Maybe as a swingman option at around $1.5m, but we aren't hurting for relievers sufficiently to give him the best part of $3m when he'd likely have been a minor league invite otherwise.