Chacin on Rehab Assignment

[jalenrose#5]

I just took a look at the Syracuse Chiefs site and noticed Chacin made a start for them on a rehab assignment.

Chacin went 3 IP, 5H, 3 ER gave up a HR and had 1K.

He struggled in the start.

Just letting you know how he did....I'd prefer 2-3 more starts out of him before he comes back.

[OldNo7]

Only 2-3 more?

[beater97]

Yeah, I'd agree with WTB... I'd expect more then 2-3.

[tsherkin]

I expect he can just stay down there and not ruin our pitching rotation by coming up and bringing his reliably inconsistent pitching back into the fold...

Chacin's not worth it. He's not a power pitcher and he struggles with control, what good is he?

[stro4swift]

What's up with all the Chacin hate? I know he's inconsistent, but am I the only one that would like to see him start over Towers? We need a lefty.

[SmallTownJournalist303]

As much as I'd like to think he could still be an innings-eating third starter in his prime, his peripherals have just never backed up his success. I can't with confidence say he's ever going to put up another year like his rookie year.

[TR50]

Towers IMO should be dealt right now, he is pitching better than he ever will in his entire life right now, get whatever you can while you can, ANYTHING!

Chacin, i just cannot ever see him doing what he did in his rookie year, i see nothing special in him, he'd be a 3rd starter on a bad pitching rotation IMO, 5th on a decent to good one, i'd prefer him in a long relief role, i still think McGowan, Litsch, Marcum and maybe even Janssen start over him, Doc is a lock. I just don't think Chacin is a good enough starter, he's too inconsistent......

EDIT: Spelling

[tsherkin]

What's up with all the Chacin hate? I know he's inconsistent, but am I the only one that would like to see him start over Towers? We need a lefty.

The Chacin hate comes from him sucking, mostly. He's not a power or a control pitcher, which means he's nothing.

A lefty in our starting rotation would be phenomenal but it just simply isn't him.

[Modern_epic]

As much as I'd like to think he could still be an innings-eating third starter in his prime, his peripherals have just never backed up his success. I can't with confidence say he's ever going to put up another year like his rookie year.

Ever time I've seen him he's been the exact opposite of an innings eater; he seems to do fine the first two times through the lineup, but looses it after the 5th. If Gibbons learns to give him the quick hook, he sounds pretty much like a prototypical number 5 guy to me. Now if only we had a real number 2.

[Jesus_Loves_Artest]

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The Chacin hate comes from him sucking, mostly. He's not a power or a control pitcher, which means he's nothing.

A lefty in our starting rotation would be phenomenal but it just simply isn't him.

I think he's adequate as a 5th starter. I think the hate comes from the expectation of him being a 3rd starter.

[tsherkin]

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I think he's adequate as a 5th starter. I think the hate comes from the expectation of him being a 3rd starter.

I disagree.

Everytime I've tracked him (live, televised or on the radio), he's struggled badly with control. He doesn't have overpowering velocity (he goes high-80s/very low 90s most days) and without that, his lack of control he's mediocre at best.

What reason is there to put him in our rotation with guys like Litsch ahead of him? Chacin isn't particularly good at anything and noticeably struggles to put his pitches where he wants them.

He's unnecessary.

Moreover, he's not good.

He gives up a pretty high WHIP and hasn't significantly improved it. He had a really nice rookie season and has since posted ERAs over five in consecutive seasons (barring a spectacular return to dominant form over several starts at the end of this season, which borders on the ludicrous to expect).

He's one of those guys who lets batters put the bat on the ball a fair bit with a high contact %, he's not a strikeout pitcher, he gives up a lot of line drives and about 15% of his allowed flyballs are homers (not good or bad, really). His FIP isn't particularly pretty either, it's over 6.

Chacin doesn't project as a pitcher in any kind of mould and he doesn't have any mould-breaking abilities.

His control is weak, his velocity is unremarkable and he's inconsistent. What in that description shows you a starting-caliber pitcher?

Yeah, he's a lefty and we could really use a southpaw starter but we need one who's at least a GOOD starter. Chacin would probably be considerably more useful to us as a long reliever.

[Jesus_Loves_Artest]

What reason is there to put him in our rotation with guys like Litsch ahead of him? Chacin isn't particularly good at anything and noticeably struggles to put his pitches where he wants them.

He's unnecessary.

What do you mean he's unecessary? Right now our 5th starter is Josh Towers. Litsch and Marcum have a combined 36 carear starts. Pitchers without dominating stuff tend to get "figured" out after they go around the league a few times.

Moreover, he's not good.

He gives up a pretty high WHIP and hasn't significantly improved it. He had a really nice rookie season and has since posted ERAs over five in consecutive seasons (barring a spectacular return to dominant form over several starts at the end of this season, which borders on the ludicrous to expect).

He had a very good rookie year, and a mediocre 2nd year (which he was injured). He's had 5 starts this year, way too small of a sample size to use in your over the top argument.

Let's take his 2nd year stats, for pitchers with at least 10 starts (180 pitchers), Gus Ranked:

112 th in WHIP (1.47)
121 st in ERA (5.05)

With 30 teams in the league that puts him in the 4th-5th starter range.

His control is weak, his velocity is unremarkable and he's inconsistent. What in that description shows you a starting-caliber pitcher?

He has decent command, but he does tend to nibble. This gets him into jams, but he is mentally tough enough to get out of them.

In his 2nd season he had 17 starts, 6 of them were quality starts, and 5 more where he went at least 5 innings with 3 or less runs, 1 he left early due to injury, and 5 where you could say were poor starts (including his first game back from injury)

Taking out the injury game, 11 out of the 16 starts he went 5 innings with 3 runs or less... wouldn't you take that from a 4th/5th starter?

[tsherkin]

What do you mean he's unecessary? Right now our 5th starter is Josh Towers. Litsch and Marcum have a combined 36 carear starts. Pitchers without dominating stuff tend to get "figured" out after they go around the league a few times.

I mean he's unnecessary as a starter, he's not really a viable option in that capacity based on what he's shown.

And while it's often true that command pitchers can be figured out, remember that Marcum's still working on his current repetoire, could add another pitch and can still be a good pitcher.

For example, I defy you to tell me that Tim Wakefield has "dominating" stuff. Right now, he's 41, he's always had a crappy fastball (< 80 mph, often) and he's got a decent curveball with that knuckler.

That's not dominating but he's still a quality pitcher.

He has decent command, but he does tend to nibble. This gets him into jams, but he is mentally tough enough to get out of them.

I don't really care about his mental toughness if he's consistently getting himself into trouble and relying on his offense to bail him out of poor outings, which he does.

Taking out the injury game, 11 out of the 16 starts he went 5 innings with 3 runs or less... wouldn't you take that from a 4th/5th starter?

No, I'd prefer what I've seen from our other pitchers. We have options and that's what makes Chacin unnecessary as a starter.