Donaldson, Jays, don't see eye-to-eye on extension

[Skin Blues]

This is the same mistake the Jays ownership and management made through Delgado, Wells and Halladay. Baseball fans don’t fill the seats and boost TV ratings because there’s a big name star on the roster, they fill the seats because the team is winning and making the playoffs. If the Jays have another poor season in ‘18, re-signing JD isn’t going to reverse declining ticket sales in ‘19 and ‘20.

The Wells signing was a horrible decision, for which we were bailed out on by Tony Reagins. The Halladay contract was fantastic, though. Delgado was fine, too. Two superstars signed through their age 32 seasons is hard to argue with. We definitely came out on top in aggregate over those 3 players.

Donaldson is will be the same age in the first year of his next contract, that Wells/Delgado/Halladay were in their last year with the Jays. Hardly comparable. I don't think there's any chance we re-sign him. I certainly hope not, anyway.

[phillipmike]

Bold words that are easily backtrackable later.

Looking for the negative, eh?

[Duffman100]

Bold words that are easily backtrackable later.

Looking for the negative, eh?

Not negative, realistic.

[phillipmike]

Not negative, realistic.

To each their own.

[SonOfRoy]

Rogers hired the snake oil salesman Shapiro for a reason. Shapiro was hired to run a frugal franchise. Rogers wants to pocket as much money as possible from the Jays and that is more important than taking a team with back to back ALCS appearances and paying a bit more salary to push to the WS.

Despite the incredible amount of revenue the Jays generate, much of which is invisible due to the Rogers TV rights and creative book keeping, Rogers is never going to provide a budget that will compete with the best in the MLB. The Yankees, Dodgers maybe the Red Sox rake in more than the Jays, but that's it. The Jays should have a top 5 payroll. Brilliant TV Ratings, nation-wide merchandise, league best attendance, this cannot be argued.

Obviously, Donaldson should have been moved for prospects last season after feeble and pathetic efforts by the front office to improve the team in the offseason. They are in no mans land, presumably Rogers is pressuring Shapiro to compete, yet the window closed after Edwin left due to an incompetent front office.

We are fu**ed. It will be a decade of misery. And all of this is the responsibility of ownership, but you can trace back to the moment Shapiro was hired as the beginning of the end.

[The_Hater]

Rogers hired the snake oil salesman Shapiro for a reason. Shapiro was hired to run a frugal franchise. Rogers wants to pocket as much money as possible from the Jays and that is more important than taking a team with back to back ALCS appearances and paying a bit more salary to push to the WS.

Despite the incredible amount of revenue the Jays generate, much of which is invisible due to the Rogers TV rights and creative book keeping, Rogers is never going to provide a budget that will compete with the best in the MLB. The Yankees, Dodgers maybe the Red Sox rake in more than the Jays, but that's it. The Jays should have a top 5 payroll. Brilliant TV Ratings, nation-wide merchandise, league best attendance, this cannot be argued.

Obviously, Donaldson should have been moved for prospects last season after feeble and pathetic efforts by the front office to improve the team in the offseason. They are in no mans land, presumably Rogers is pressuring Shapiro to compete, yet the window closed after Edwin left due to an incompetent front office.

We are fu**ed. It will be a decade of misery. And all of this is the responsibility of ownership, but you can trace back to the moment Shapiro was hired as the beginning of the end.

Such a terrible post.

[Rapcity_11]

Rogers hired the snake oil salesman Shapiro for a reason. Shapiro was hired to run a frugal franchise. Rogers wants to pocket as much money as possible from the Jays and that is more important than taking a team with back to back ALCS appearances and paying a bit more salary to push to the WS.

Despite the incredible amount of revenue the Jays generate, much of which is invisible due to the Rogers TV rights and creative book keeping, Rogers is never going to provide a budget that will compete with the best in the MLB. The Yankees, Dodgers maybe the Red Sox rake in more than the Jays, but that's it. The Jays should have a top 5 payroll. Brilliant TV Ratings, nation-wide merchandise, league best attendance, this cannot be argued.

Obviously, Donaldson should have been moved for prospects last season after feeble and pathetic efforts by the front office to improve the team in the offseason. They are in no mans land, presumably Rogers is pressuring Shapiro to compete, yet the window closed after Edwin left due to an incompetent front office.

We are fu**ed. It will be a decade of misery. And all of this is the responsibility of ownership, but you can trace back to the moment Shapiro was hired as the beginning of the end.

....The Jays were #5 in opening day payroll last year at $178M. Considering the Canadian dollar difference, they were right there with everyone except the Dodgers. I don't understand what people expect.

[johanliebert]

MLB has a whole has got smarter (relatively speaking) and are not paying big bucks to older guys like Josh, Edwin or Bautista. So my guess is the Jays floated some fair numbers based on today's market to the agent and Josh said no (just like Edwin and Jose said no).

This essentially provides Shapiro with something tangible to take back to Rogers (and fans who still think the Jays have a shot) and say "I tried, but Josh turned me down". It makes it easier for Shapiro to sell Rogers on the notion that Josh needs to be traded or the Jays end up with ZERO in long term value. This accelerates the likelihood that Josh is traded.

being a Dh only and past durability issues hurt EE. Donaldson will command more money than EE.

[SonOfRoy]

Rogers hired the snake oil salesman Shapiro for a reason. Shapiro was hired to run a frugal franchise. Rogers wants to pocket as much money as possible from the Jays and that is more important than taking a team with back to back ALCS appearances and paying a bit more salary to push to the WS.

Despite the incredible amount of revenue the Jays generate, much of which is invisible due to the Rogers TV rights and creative book keeping, Rogers is never going to provide a budget that will compete with the best in the MLB. The Yankees, Dodgers maybe the Red Sox rake in more than the Jays, but that's it. The Jays should have a top 5 payroll. Brilliant TV Ratings, nation-wide merchandise, league best attendance, this cannot be argued.

Obviously, Donaldson should have been moved for prospects last season after feeble and pathetic efforts by the front office to improve the team in the offseason. They are in no mans land, presumably Rogers is pressuring Shapiro to compete, yet the window closed after Edwin left due to an incompetent front office.

We are fu**ed. It will be a decade of misery. And all of this is the responsibility of ownership, but you can trace back to the moment Shapiro was hired as the beginning of the end.

Such a terrible post.

You talk about a JD extension like it's a given he would sign. He won't ink with such a horrible front office. You are a terrible poster.

[SonOfRoy]

Rogers hired the snake oil salesman Shapiro for a reason. Shapiro was hired to run a frugal franchise. Rogers wants to pocket as much money as possible from the Jays and that is more important than taking a team with back to back ALCS appearances and paying a bit more salary to push to the WS.

Despite the incredible amount of revenue the Jays generate, much of which is invisible due to the Rogers TV rights and creative book keeping, Rogers is never going to provide a budget that will compete with the best in the MLB. The Yankees, Dodgers maybe the Red Sox rake in more than the Jays, but that's it. The Jays should have a top 5 payroll. Brilliant TV Ratings, nation-wide merchandise, league best attendance, this cannot be argued.

Obviously, Donaldson should have been moved for prospects last season after feeble and pathetic efforts by the front office to improve the team in the offseason. They are in no mans land, presumably Rogers is pressuring Shapiro to compete, yet the window closed after Edwin left due to an incompetent front office.

We are fu**ed. It will be a decade of misery. And all of this is the responsibility of ownership, but you can trace back to the moment Shapiro was hired as the beginning of the end.

....The Jays were #5 in opening day payroll last year at $178M. Considering the Canadian dollar difference, they were right there with everyone except the Dodgers. I don't understand what people expect.

What have they done the last 2 off seasons to compete? GTFO.

[SonOfRoy]

Jays were 10th in payroll in '16 and '15. 1 year of fifth absolves Rogers from years of horrendous mismanagement? Do you work at a Rogers call centre?

[Schad]

What have they done the last 2 off seasons to compete? GTFO.

Kept payroll where it was. I have major issues with Rogers, but the amount spent isn't the problem; this is the natural result of having gutted our minor league depth and taking on a bunch of salary attached to older players in order to compete in 2015 and 2016. We aren't one or two or three signings away from being anything but the third-best team in the AL East.

The problem is that we aren't pivoting away from that era now that our window to win the division is all but shut.

[Rapcity_11]

Rogers hired the snake oil salesman Shapiro for a reason. Shapiro was hired to run a frugal franchise. Rogers wants to pocket as much money as possible from the Jays and that is more important than taking a team with back to back ALCS appearances and paying a bit more salary to push to the WS.

Despite the incredible amount of revenue the Jays generate, much of which is invisible due to the Rogers TV rights and creative book keeping, Rogers is never going to provide a budget that will compete with the best in the MLB. The Yankees, Dodgers maybe the Red Sox rake in more than the Jays, but that's it. The Jays should have a top 5 payroll. Brilliant TV Ratings, nation-wide merchandise, league best attendance, this cannot be argued.

Obviously, Donaldson should have been moved for prospects last season after feeble and pathetic efforts by the front office to improve the team in the offseason. They are in no mans land, presumably Rogers is pressuring Shapiro to compete, yet the window closed after Edwin left due to an incompetent front office.

We are fu**ed. It will be a decade of misery. And all of this is the responsibility of ownership, but you can trace back to the moment Shapiro was hired as the beginning of the end.

....The Jays were #5 in opening day payroll last year at $178M. Considering the Canadian dollar difference, they were right there with everyone except the Dodgers. I don't understand what people expect.

What have they done the last 2 off seasons to compete? GTFO.

Shifting the goalposts....how shocking.

[polo007]

Read on Twitter

The Jays were probably relieved when Edwin Encarnacion rejected their four-year, $80-million offer last off-season. The rapid decline of Jose Bautista is fresh in their mind as well, reinforcing their analytics. They wouldn’t likely consider a deal of more than four years for Donaldson.

Ownership has placed no specific limitations on Shapiro and Atkins with regard to how much they can pay any individual player, but they have to consider how much they can commit to one franchise player while still fielding a winning roster around him.

Donaldson is making $23 million this season and will likely command as much as $30 million per year in free agency. That may be a deal-breaker for Toronto’s front office.

The other challenge for the Jays in any deal with Donaldson is the inclusion of a no-trade clause. Again, Shapiro and Atkins never say never on anything. They would consider such clauses in certain circumstances, but it is unclear whether a multi-year commitment to a 33-year-old third baseman would be such a circumstance. Big free-agent stars expect no-trade clauses. If they’re going to commit to a club, they want the club to commit to them.

Even if all the stars aligned for Donaldson and the Jays, he would want to know that the franchise would be willing to commit to other free agents in the same way they are with him: money, years, no-trade clauses, etc. Donaldson wants to get paid his true value, but he also wants to win. You’d expect him to look elsewhere if he couldn’t get that commitment.

[SonOfRoy]

....The Jays were #5 in opening day payroll last year at $178M. Considering the Canadian dollar difference, they were right there with everyone except the Dodgers. I don't understand what people expect.

What have they done the last 2 off seasons to compete? GTFO.

Shifting the goalposts....how shocking.

You can leave the goalposts right there. 10th in payroll for '15, '16 is what is significant. Not egregious, but a little influx in payroll for those years could have went a long way.

5th in payroll last year and 1 game out of 5th in the AL East. What use is it spending money on Morales and Pearce? (Not saying you or anyone else supported those contracts, just Shatkins and Shatiro.)

A wasted window of opportunity, and an incredibly concerning approach from the front office at the current time.

[Rapcity_11]

What have they done the last 2 off seasons to compete? GTFO.

Shifting the goalposts....how shocking.

You can leave the goalposts right there. 10th in payroll for '15, '16 is what is significant. Not egregious, but a little influx in payroll for those years could have went a long way.

5th in payroll last year and 1 game out of 5th in the AL East. What use is it spending money on Morales and Pearce? (Not saying you or anyone else supported those contracts, just Shatkins and Shatiro.)

A wasted window of opportunity, and an incredibly concerning approach from the front office at the current time.

10th in payroll.... once again with the FX difference putting them right up there with pretty much anybody.

The fact remains that you argued the Jays should have had a top 5 payroll when they already did.

BTW Shatkins is supposed to represent both Shapiro and Atkins, isn't it?

[Schad]

You can leave the goalposts right there. 10th in payroll for '15, '16 is what is significant. Not egregious, but a little influx in payroll for those years could have went a long way.

5th in payroll last year and 1 game out of 5th in the AL East. What use is it spending money on Morales and Pearce? (Not saying you or anyone else supported those contracts, just Shatkins and Shatiro.)

A wasted window of opportunity, and an incredibly concerning approach from the front office at the current time.

1 game out of 5th tells the story, though. There weren't any players on the market worth, say, 9 extra wins that would sign for less than $20m AAV. You're doing well if you get a third of that production at that price. A little spending would have gone exactly where that team was destined to go, namely nowhere at all.