The Stro Thread

[spykelee]

Where does the fanbase stand on this guy?

Personally, at least at the moment, I tend to swing to the side of looking to resign him. I mean, we are potentially only a couple years away from being back into the thick of things and Stro would "only" be 29 by then. You need that horse in your rotation still. The best teams come playoffs, are always pushing their big starters, both starting and from the bullpen to get those big high leverage outs. And even without the playoffs, you still need a guy who can go out there and pitch ya 6-7 innings and is a leader of the staff. Guy throws what, 7 different pitches? Varied delivery? I think he's a stud personally and though I acknowledge that he fetches a massive return, I'd much rather shop Sanchez over stro. Five inning guys are highly replaceable imo. Stro has that ability to elevate his game when there is electricity in the air and there is already a good amount with just vladdy here and the team at. 500. Imagine when biggio and bichette and co. Arrive. If the fanbase catches fire this guy could become absolutely integral. I love his passion for the city and country too. Could it just be posturing? Sure. Does it matter? Idk, probably not but sentimentally I like it and who knows, you could certainly see him becoming a fan favoirite which would only elevate his game even more... It's an interesting scenario.

Where do you guys stand? Are we looking to keep one of Sanchez or stro? Are we shopping both? If we are, who or what are we expecting to replace these guys with in a couple years? I'd probably consider a 4-5 year deal...

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[Skin Blues]

I'm not in favour of signing any significant starting pitcher right now, and that includes Stroman. It'd have to be a hell of a discount which I don't think his ego would allow. Pitchers fall apart quickly, and there's no real reason to take a chance now that he (or any pitcher) will still be this good two years from now.

[spykelee]

So you would just build a rotation year to year, using your young, arb eligible guys, and filling in the gaps with shoemaker types? Pitching is very volatile no question, there is very few consistent guys year to year. But say we have one now, you wouldn't be interested in tendering even a relatively shorter contract to him?

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[dagger]

So you would just build a rotation year to year, using your young, arb eligible guys, and filling in the gaps with shoemaker types? Pitching is very volatile no question, there is very few consistent guys year to year. But say we have one now, you wouldn't be interested in tendering even a relatively shorter contract to him?

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This isn't the NBA where the top stars can bring repeatable brilliance. If Harden, LeBron, Durant, Kawhi want the max, you cut the cheque without a second thought. The best position players in baseball are a good investment until they start to age out. I wouldn't hesitate to throw big money at Christian Yellich. But even the best pitchers are a gamble salary wise. Stroman was a bit of a bust last year, thanks to his injury issues, late start. Unless a pitcher is under 30, has demonstrated a level of consistency and durability through five seasons, and is pitching for a contender, I don't like the idea of long-term David Price type deals. The market has shifted away from that (see Dallas Keuchel)

In evaluating Stroman, you have to ask about his ability to deliver starts like the last two, which were admittedly great. He also runs through periods of five innings starts where he barely keeps the team in the game. So what is his going-forward value? And will be sustain that value into his early 30s? And is he a net plus to the team in the locker room? I'm not against an extension, if it's reasonable, because a reasonable deal may enhance his trade value. Pay too much, and it devalues it. My concern with Marcus is that he will want too much. He's got a classic Napoleon complex, and seems to equate adoration with respect. He will feel disrespected by anything that doesn't value him as an all-star.

[Skin Blues]

So you would just build a rotation year to year, using your young, arb eligible guys, and filling in the gaps with shoemaker types? Pitching is very volatile no question, there is very few consistent guys year to year. But say we have one now, you wouldn't be interested in tendering even a relatively shorter contract to him?

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I'd not be interested in any short-term contract that Stroman woudl agree to. He'd want too much (as he should). Somebody will be willing to give him more money than what we should be committing. Somebody that has more use for the value he'll provide in 2019 and 2020. I'd be targeting pre-arb pitchers and going year to year for now, yeah. Like Buchholz, Shoemaker, etc. As opposed to signing guys to 2+ year contracts/extensions for tens of millions of dollars. If we can trade Stroman/Sanchez for younger less proven pitchers I'd be OK with that.

[Black Watch]

Guy throws what, 7 different pitches? Varied delivery? I think he's a stud personally and though I acknowledge that he fetches a massive return, I'd much rather shop Sanchez over stro. Five inning guys are highly replaceable imo.

I mean, we can (and should) trade both. If Stroman keeps this up, the return will be massive. And we could use some more depth in the farm, especially with all the upcoming graduations. Plus I don't see him tempering his self-regarding ways enough to be any sort of leader in the clubhouse.

He is throwing his slider (he calls it a slurve) this year much more (had 16 swinging strikes last time out). He's got some pedigree (good rookie season, 2015 postseason, and his WBC performance), so he will get the rumors mills churning more than Sanchez. And after how underwhelming the returns for Donaldson, Osuna, and Happ were, morale could actually improve if the return is solid.

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I love his passion for the city and country too. Could it just be posturing? Sure. Does it matter? Idk, probably not but sentimentally I like it and who knows, you could certainly see him becoming a fan favoirite which would only elevate his game even more.

I like it, too, even though it seems transparently manipulative at times (seems like it's more for him than for Toronto/Canada). It does count for something, but he's just going to use that to get paid more from us.

[Tanner]

Extend Stroman, trade Sanchez and Giles.

Wouldn't mind extending Giles too if the price is reasonable, but chances are the price won't be reasonable since relievers get paid a ton, and elite relievers always command a lot at the deadline.

[Schad]

Extend Stroman for what, though? And when? Because that deal needs to be done by mid-June; going into next season without any idea whether he will sign for a rational price would be nuts. And if he wants an AAV in excess of $20m over 4-5 years, we really buying?

[Black Watch]

And who would be dumb enough to trade for Sanchez?

Dude has the second-highest walk rate in the league and his contact profile is terrible (over 90mph average exit velocity). It's either we fix him somehow (!) or throw him in the 'pen—maybe there he'll find the strike zone and become a reliever we can trade away closer to the deadline.

[polo007]

ESPN’s Buster Olney joined 1050’s First Up with Michael Landsberg to discuss whether the Blue Jays are still likely to deal Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez and if they can expect a hefty return in a potential trade given their strong starts.

Olney says the Toronto Blue Jays could get a "really good" return in a potential Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez trade.

Olney: Jays could get ‘really good’ return in potential Stroman, Sanchez trade - TSN.ca

According to ESPN’s Buster Olney, the Jays could shoot for a hefty return.

“The way that it’s shaping up this summer [versus last year] it’s the complete opposite where Stroman looks great and Sanchez look great,” Olney said Tuesday on TSN 1050’s First Up with Michael Landsberg.

“But some of the other guys who might be options on the trade market, like Madison Bumgarner, haven’t looked good so far and so you figure that if in fact the Blue Jays take [Stroman and Sanchez] out into the market they’re going to do really well and you would assume that the focus for the Blue Jays is going to be on adding pitching

As for the kind of return the Jays could get in a potential deal, Olney had this to say:

“But big picture, [this season] for the Blue Jays this is about promoting some of these great young prospects for the first time to get their first taste in the big leagues and then to see what they can get for Stroman and Sanchez, which as I say, should be really good as long as those guys continue to perform this way and stay healthy and it will fuel the rebuild. All you have to do is look and see what they gave up to the Mets for R.A. Dickey. And Noah Syndergaard, that’s the type of guy you could expect to get for Stroman and Aaron Sanchez.”

[spykelee]

If we can get a return of a young potential front of the line stud pitcher, by all means, but I'm less optimistic of that then Olney is.

We don't have great prospect capital on the pitching side and I figure if we're relatively competitive in a couple years, I'm just not sure who we expect to lead our staff if we deal both Stro and Sanchez. Where are the innings and such going to come from? Young guys don't roll in and throw 200. I suppose you can just acquire prospect capital and deal that when you need to but pitching is so volatile as we know. Sometimes it's better the devil you know vs the one you don't. If Stro would consider a 4/20ish deal, I'd think about it for sure. I don't want an entire staff of those contracts. Deal Sanchez that's fine, but somewhere along the lines we need that horse at the top and that guy is gonna get paid regardless. If it isn't stro, I'm just not sure who it is and where there coming from and if there going to be able to synchronize with our positional depth that is close to on the brink.

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[dagger]

If we can get a return of a young potential front of the line stud pitcher, by all means, but I'm less optimistic of that then Olney is.

We don't have great prospect capital on the pitching side and I figure if we're relatively competitive in a couple years, I'm just not sure who we expect to lead our staff if we deal both Stro and Sanchez. Where are the innings and such going to come from? Young guys don't roll in and throw 200. I suppose you can just acquire prospect capital and deal that when you need to but pitching is so volatile as we know. Sometimes it's better the devil you know vs the one you don't. If Stro would consider a 4/20ish deal, I'd think about it for sure. I don't want an entire staff of those contracts. Deal Sanchez that's fine, but somewhere along the lines we need that horse at the top and that guy is gonna get paid regardless. If it isn't stro, I'm just not sure who it is and where there coming from and if there going to be able to synchronize with our positional depth that is close to on the brink.

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If, and it's a big if, Stroman continues to have a stellar season, he's at worst a solid, dependable #3 in a good rotation, and higher on some contenders. He's young, a gold glove fielder, could hit a bit in the NL, has a decent deal this year and one more year of arbitration, so some control. For a contender, it's a good time to extend him. And he has playoff experience!

So yes, I think he could command a top pitching prospect.

The question is, if 2022 is when we might sniff real contention, what is he capable of three years from now? Is he still that horse?

[I_Like_Dirt]

If we can get a return of a young potential front of the line stud pitcher, by all means, but I'm less optimistic of that then Olney is.

We don't have great prospect capital on the pitching side and I figure if we're relatively competitive in a couple years, I'm just not sure who we expect to lead our staff if we deal both Stro and Sanchez. Where are the innings and such going to come from? Young guys don't roll in and throw 200. I suppose you can just acquire prospect capital and deal that when you need to but pitching is so volatile as we know. Sometimes it's better the devil you know vs the one you don't. If Stro would consider a 4/20ish deal, I'd think about it for sure. I don't want an entire staff of those contracts. Deal Sanchez that's fine, but somewhere along the lines we need that horse at the top and that guy is gonna get paid regardless. If it isn't stro, I'm just not sure who it is and where there coming from and if there going to be able to synchronize with our positional depth that is close to on the brink.

Barring injuries or something like that, someone will pay up for Stroman. Maybe not quite as much as we would hope for, maybe more, who knows, but that is a bit beside the point unless the market is totally dry, which I doubt. The bigger issue is why pay Stroman before it's necessary? The way the market is going, the Jays might be able to get Stroman back for that same deal in free agency after 2020 if they trade him and change their mind while having already added prospects for trading him. Or they could sign a different pitcher. Really, the only reason to sign Stroman to an extension now is if he's willing to sign a deal below market value, either increasing his trade value or makes him obviously better value than anything the Jays could hope to get in free agency. Really, the Jays aren't trading away Stroman for whatever prospects they might get back. They'd be trading away 2 years of Stroman for those prospects, and then the ability to pay Stroman big money for the ability to pay any pitcher (including possibly Stroman, himself, if they really want to) big money. It pays to play the market here, and I tend to like Stroman as a player, but it makes loads of sense to trade him unless the Jays are making some sort of improbable playoff run this season as they wait out the market.