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Ken Giles long term in Toronto now?

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Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#1 » by North_of_Border » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:26 pm

The Jays were 100% gonna sell off Ken Giles at a HUGE price this deadline. He was the best reliever on the market and quite possibly will also be in the offseason if they still want to cash in on him.

However, now that the Jays will possibly compete next year, should the Jays consider an extension?

How much would it cost and what term would he accept?..... or do the Jays still shop him anyway and let some one else close games. Though if traded, what should the return target be?
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#2 » by Schad » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:41 pm

We'll trade him in the offseaosn, because it makes more sense than keeping a reliever around for a single season, or extending that reliever for major money into his 30s.
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#3 » by Adrian_05 » Sun Sep 1, 2019 1:15 am

They only thing the Jays will be competing for next year is a .500 record. Makes no sense to keep him.
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#4 » by T-d0t » Sun Sep 1, 2019 5:37 am

Who told you the Jays will be competitive next year?
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#5 » by dagger » Sun Sep 1, 2019 4:31 pm

The good thing is that a game like yesterday's where he whiffed his old team was a nice demonstration of his health and talent. He may be the showcase closer on the trade market this winter and ought to fetch at least one fairly advanced starter (or an outfield prospect who isn't going to top out with a .220 average and sub .300 OBP). The Jays have a number of relievers or relief candidates in the system to develop as closers. Romano, McClelland, Hatch, now Curtis Taylor if he's healthy, all profile as big velocity one-inning guys with a decent secondary pitch. You'll always find okay seventh and eighth inning guys on scrap heap, we seem to do so every year, and a few of our starter candidates might do better in the end in the narrower role of the one-inning pitcher.
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#6 » by GoRapstheoriginal » Sun Sep 1, 2019 7:57 pm

And then he gives up the game winning HR today in the top of the 9th!

/sarcasm: Way to go Giles! Ugh! :\
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#7 » by phillipmike » Tue Sep 3, 2019 3:30 pm

Read on Twitter


Jays thought they had a done deal of Ken Giles for 3 prospects with the Yankees but New York backed out.

Sounds like the Yankees screwed us over;

The Ken Giles trade that wasn’t

On the day of the trade deadline, the Yankees and Blue Jays made significant progress on a deal that would have sent reliever Ken Giles to New York, according to major-league sources. The Jays were set to receive three prospects, and informed the other clubs pursuing Giles they were going to be moving him elsewhere.

The trade, of course, never happened, and the Yankees backed off too late for the Jays to complete a deal with another club. The most logical explanation is that the Yankees had concerns about Giles’ elbow, though teams had prior access to his medical records and several factored the risk into their offers, sources said.

------

Giles, 28, is earning $6.3 million this season, and will remain under team control through arbitration for one more year. Thus, the Jays should have two more chances to trade him – this offseason and at next year’s deadline.


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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#8 » by kavan » Tue Sep 3, 2019 7:53 pm

I wouldnt give the Yankees a piece that can give them value for the next 2-5 years. Pass.

I can see the Jays being a contender in the next couple years or having to blow it up again. Once a young player gets called up the first year is the feel out, year number 2 is the build up and year 3 is the come out party. Year 4 is the Stroman/Sanchez uh-oh wonder what we can get for them now.
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#9 » by The_Hater » Wed Sep 4, 2019 2:26 am

kavan wrote:I wouldnt give the Yankees a piece that can give them value for the next 2-5 years. Pass.

I can see the Jays being a contender in the next couple years or having to blow it up again. Once a young player gets called up the first year is the feel out, year number 2 is the build up and year 3 is the come out party. Year 4 is the Stroman/Sanchez uh-oh wonder what we can get for them now.


There’s probably going to be some date in the future where the Jays need to rebuild again, but that’s not a good reason to avoiding building the best team possible these next 2-4 years. AA built the oldest team in MLB so obviously the exportation date on that’s team came far more quickly than we would have liked, that shouldn’t happen this time around.

And Giles has only 1 year left on his current contract so I personally wouldn’t care if they traded him to the Yankees, they need to fork out $$$ to get 2-5 years from him.
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#10 » by Schad » Wed Sep 4, 2019 6:27 am

Relievers are also just so, so very inconsistent; there's absolutely no guarantee that he'll be worth a substantial contract in 2-3 years. To wit, here are the 15 best relievers (by fWAR) from 2016:

Kenley Jansen - still good.
Andrew Miller - cooked.
Dellin Betances - still good.
Seunghwan Oh - DFA'd, heading back to Korea.
Zack Britton - his ERA is great, and he gets an insane GB rate, but he's fairly mediocre overall now.
Addison Reed - DFA'd and released.
Kyle Barraclough - DFA'd once, spent a part of the year in AAA.
Chris Devenski - thoroughly mediocre.
Kelvin Herrera - awful this year; might bounce back, but he'd be a DFA candidate if not for his contract.
Jeurys Familia - good last year; awful in 2019.
Edwin Diaz - suddenly giving up a terrifying HR rate, but might bounce back.
Tyler Thornburg - awful.
Mark Melancon - still rather solid.
Nate Jones - pretty bad from 2018-2019, got given away at the deadline.


In 2016, you'd have been delighted to have any of those guys. A mere three years later, there are only three that I'd consider to be good value for money in Jansen, Betances and Melancon, and a couple others that are either okay/are good bounceback candidates (it's just as bleak if you look at saves).

The time to spend big to acquire/keep a top reliever is when you need them right this second. But it's nigh on impossible to determine whether they'll still be good in the future.
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#11 » by polo007 » Tue May 19, 2020 3:31 pm

Will Ken Giles remain a Blue Jay? | Blue Jays Central @Home

19:06 | May 18, 2020

Jamie Campbell, Mike Wilner, Ben Wagner and Joe Siddall discuss the current state of the Blue Jays bullpen and future of their closer, while Ken Giles explains to Hazel Mae why an extension hasn’t happened yet.
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#12 » by BigLeagueChew » Tue May 19, 2020 8:57 pm

swstrike relief leaders over their careers

1 Josh Hader 19.9 %
2 Eric Gagne 18.6 %
3 Edwin Diaz 17.8 %
4 John Smoltz 17.3 %
5 Brad Lidge 17.1 %
6 Ken Giles 17.0 %
7 Koji Uehara 17.0 %
8 Aroldis Chapman 16.8 %
9 Hector Neris 16.6 %
10 Craig Kimbrel 16.5 %

Do need to be careful as he had arm issues last year but impressive stat.
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#13 » by rarefind » Wed May 20, 2020 7:00 pm

Nothing precludes us from trading him and signing him in the off-season if he's really the arm we want. If we can get assets for him at the deadline, you definitely move him.

The Yankees did this with Chapman and yielded them an absolute stud of a player in Gleyber Torres. Oh yeah, they signed Chapman to return to the Bronx in the off-season.
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#14 » by dagger » Tue May 26, 2020 5:09 pm

rarefind wrote:Nothing precludes us from trading him and signing him in the off-season if he's really the arm we want. If we can get assets for him at the deadline, you definitely move him.

The Yankees did this with Chapman and yielded them an absolute stud of a player in Gleyber Torres. Oh yeah, they signed Chapman to return to the Bronx in the off-season.



I don't see how one can think in terms of "a deadline deal" for a truncated season. The best deadline opportunity will come in 2021, and maybe 2022. I also think Chapman was perceived as a better talent than Giles, and while he certainly had his off-field issues, Giles has on-field issues, notably of temperament that some GMs will assume have not gone away, but have only been tamped down by playing in a non-pressure environment. My feeling is that if there is a reasonable deal - shortness being my most important criteria, not dollars, we can use a strong relief presence behind young starting pitchers, just as some good infield D would help our starters. And Giles does seem like a good locker room guy. The key would be not having his money impede the team from retaining its best young players if the organization is able to buy out some of their control years.
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Re: Ken Giles long term in Toronto now? 

Post#15 » by rarefind » Tue May 26, 2020 9:51 pm

dagger wrote:
rarefind wrote:Nothing precludes us from trading him and signing him in the off-season if he's really the arm we want. If we can get assets for him at the deadline, you definitely move him.

The Yankees did this with Chapman and yielded them an absolute stud of a player in Gleyber Torres. Oh yeah, they signed Chapman to return to the Bronx in the off-season.



I don't see how one can think in terms of "a deadline deal" for a truncated season. The best deadline opportunity will come in 2021, and maybe 2022. I also think Chapman was perceived as a better talent than Giles, and while he certainly had his off-field issues, Giles has on-field issues, notably of temperament that some GMs will assume have not gone away, but have only been tamped down by playing in a non-pressure environment. My feeling is that if there is a reasonable deal - shortness being my most important criteria, not dollars, we can use a strong relief presence behind young starting pitchers, just as some good infield D would help our starters. And Giles does seem like a good locker room guy. The key would be not having his money impede the team from retaining its best young players if the organization is able to buy out some of their control years.


I agree with your sentiment of GIles seeming to fit, but that shouldn't preclude us from trading him if we have a suitor. Even if Giles won't net half of what Chapman yielded in regards of that good of a prospect that close to being major league ready. Unless we are getting some sort of post uncertain times contract on Giles I say you trade him. If this situation is handled correctly, dealing him and resigning him in the winter shouldn't be considered mutually exclusive. However, with Shatkins' track record he will be traded for a 26 year old 4th outfielder who is out of options.

Hoping this post ages poorly and the Jays' somehow actually compete in this strange "baseball" season to come.

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