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Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos

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Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#1 » by North_of_Border » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:46 am

With all the hate these guys got. They are finally putting it together. You see their vision, and can honestly say they are more well rounded than Alex Anthopoulos. They are building a foundation and did it from scratch and in much less time.

AA just sold Everything, left the cup board empty and few years later lucked out on a loaded Atlanta team.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#2 » by vaff87 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:17 am

They haven’t been perfect, they’ve made some mistakes, but overall they’ve been very solid and have us in a really good position going forward.

I always felt their “haters” were either causal fans or simply had no idea what they were talking about (where’s ratul at??)
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#3 » by T-d0t » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:16 pm

AA was able to trade prospects when their value was high for major league talent and the only time we got burned was with Syndergaard.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#4 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:21 pm

T-d0t wrote:AA was able to trade prospects when their value was high for major league talent and the only time we got burned was with Syndergaard.
That's because almost none of the prospects he picked up ever panned out. But yes, finding ways to trade them for good established players showed well. That has a limited shelf life, though, and then you need more prospects either to keep supporting your team or to trade for new veterans, which the Jays didn't have and couldn't exploit the same loophole AA used to get those picks in the first place.

Shapiro and Atkins, by contrast, have completely established the farm system. It's constantly feeding guys to the team be it Bo/Biggio/Kirk style or trading them for Walker, etc. and they're not emptying it any time soon which makes what they're doing way more sustainable.

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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#5 » by Fairview4Life » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:40 pm

The risks they take seem to be fairly low while still maintaining flexibility for high reward. I like having lots of rolls of the dice and even if we have to deal with the McKinney's and Drury's or whoever while waiting on Vlad and Bo and the gang, we still might end up with a Teoscar or summer Randall.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#6 » by bluerap23 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:40 pm

I like what I have seen over the past couple years. They have acquired a lot of talent. Jury is still out on this comparison though because AA took the team further. Hard to deny we have a bright future though.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#7 » by Metallikid » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:24 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
T-d0t wrote:AA was able to trade prospects when their value was high for major league talent and the only time we got burned was with Syndergaard.
That's because almost none of the prospects he picked up ever panned out. But yes, finding ways to trade them for good established players showed well. That has a limited shelf life, though, and then you need more prospects either to keep supporting your team or to trade for new veterans, which the Jays didn't have and couldn't exploit the same loophole AA used to get those picks in the first place.

Shapiro and Atkins, by contrast, have completely established the farm system. It's constantly feeding guys to the team be it Bo/Biggio/Kirk style or trading them for Walker, etc. and they're not emptying it any time soon which makes what they're doing way more sustainable.

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I guess it remains to be seen if they are just good at rebuilding or if they can also make the right moves to put us into contention.

That includes what we end up doing with Charlie.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#8 » by Scott Hall » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:44 pm

I didn't like AA at all glad to see a proper rebuild but the culture still needs to change with all the
constant base running and fielding mistakes that can't happen at the Major League level.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#9 » by Randle McMurphy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:17 am

AA was more fun to have managing your team, Shapiro is better to have managing your team.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#10 » by Michael Bradley » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:59 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:AA was more fun to have managing your team, Shapiro is better to have managing your team.


I think that's the best way to describe it. With AA, he was a risk taker who thought big but didn't always have long-term vision in mind. So once he finally hit on something good, the shelf life was limited.

With Shapiro and Atkins, there should be a longer, more sustainable window of contention, but it will probably be less exciting/more paint-by-numbers in execution. Although they did sign Ryu, so they might have some surprise free agent bullets in them.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#11 » by metafisical » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:36 pm

Michael Bradley wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:AA was more fun to have managing your team, Shapiro is better to have managing your team.


I think that's the best way to describe it. With AA, he was a risk taker who thought big but didn't always have long-term vision in mind. So once he finally hit on something good, the shelf life was limited.

With Shapiro and Atkins, there should be a longer, more sustainable window of contention, but it will probably be less exciting/more paint-by-numbers in execution. Although they did sign Ryu, so they might have some surprise free agent bullets in them.


Agree with both of your posts.

If AA's 2015 team had won the World Series, and then history progressed the way it did (i.e., Beeston/AA gone, Shapiro/Atkins in, etc...), would you have the same opinion of AA?
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#12 » by carnage24 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:11 pm

I like both front offices. However Shatkins was hated because they didnt get the team back into the promise land in 2017 beyond. Which was a bit of an unrealistic expectation if you saw how bad they looked in 2016 (September collapse)and considering the age of our core group and a depleted farm system.

I wish they had done the rebuild sooner in 2016 winter/2017 trade deadline/2017 winter but the rebuild is still going as planned. Rogers probably was at fault for not allowing them to rebuild sooner or not idk. They did botch a few trades but overall great at drafting and made some good trades aswell (ie Stroman deal)

AA did make those risky trades and i think 2015 was the best shot at winning and he certainly got the pieces for it. I think Shatkins has the team better positioned to be contenders for longer than 2 years which is great to see
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#13 » by Randle McMurphy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:12 pm

metafisical wrote:
Michael Bradley wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:AA was more fun to have managing your team, Shapiro is better to have managing your team.


I think that's the best way to describe it. With AA, he was a risk taker who thought big but didn't always have long-term vision in mind. So once he finally hit on something good, the shelf life was limited.

With Shapiro and Atkins, there should be a longer, more sustainable window of contention, but it will probably be less exciting/more paint-by-numbers in execution. Although they did sign Ryu, so they might have some surprise free agent bullets in them.


Agree with both of your posts.

If AA's 2015 team had won the World Series, and then history progressed the way it did (i.e., Beeston/AA gone, Shapiro/Atkins in, etc...), would you have the same opinion of AA?

I personally don't have a negative opinion of AA. Anybody that can pull off that JD trade (even if it was only taking advantage of how much Beane hated the guy) is deserving of a massive amount of respect. I do however think this franchise is being run better now than it was at any time during the Beeston/AA era.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#14 » by Michael Bradley » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:32 pm

metafisical wrote:
Michael Bradley wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:AA was more fun to have managing your team, Shapiro is better to have managing your team.


I think that's the best way to describe it. With AA, he was a risk taker who thought big but didn't always have long-term vision in mind. So once he finally hit on something good, the shelf life was limited.

With Shapiro and Atkins, there should be a longer, more sustainable window of contention, but it will probably be less exciting/more paint-by-numbers in execution. Although they did sign Ryu, so they might have some surprise free agent bullets in them.


Agree with both of your posts.

If AA's 2015 team had won the World Series, and then history progressed the way it did (i.e., Beeston/AA gone, Shapiro/Atkins in, etc...), would you have the same opinion of AA?


I think AA in Toronto was similar to Dave Dombrowski. He went for the home runs rather than trying to piece together a few hits like the Shapiro/Atkins regime does. That led to some big wins like Donaldson and Martin, but also big misses in Reyes, Dickey, Johnson, and so on. It really depends on what type of front office you prefer. I think it would be very difficult for Shapiro/Atkins to build a roster as good as the 2015 one, but chances are AA was never going to build a cost efficient, farm system oriented roster that had potential for a more sustained chance at success like Shapiro/Atkins have now (which is obviously a bit skewed now due to expanded playoffs).

Overall, AA was a more “fun” GM, if short sighted, due to greater risk. The current regime is going to be more risk averse, so less exciting to follow year to year, but the team should be competitive for longer. I think the best thing that could have happened was Shapiro as president and AA as the GM, but unfortunately that was likely never going to happen given the circumstances.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#15 » by Schad » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:54 pm

It's no secret that I prefer the patient build over throwing the chips in, but it's also difficult to separate out the GM's actions from the directives from on high. The story has always been that AA went to management to accelerate the rebuild with the first wave of (not terribly successful) moves, and they raised payroll to accommodate, and that might well be true. They may also have suggested that it was time to make a little more money, as they did later in 2015.

Reverse the timing and it's possible that AA acts more like Shapiro/Atkins and vice versa. AA has been pretty patient with Atlanta, though he also parachuted into an impossibly good situation.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#16 » by Hoopstarr » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:24 am

As always, you have to consider the context. AA took over a franchise that had I believe the second longest playoff baseball drought running (ahead of the Royals). It was time to get to the **** playoffs already, even if just to feel alive again. AA quickly built up a stable of prospects while making some legendary deals like trading for a pick and getting rid of $100m worth of Vernon Wells. I didn't like either of the two big 2013 trades from the jump (which then necessitated the Tulo and Price trades), but the idea was correct. Then he traded for the MVP. We came pretty close to our first pennant in 22 years, but just making the playoffs ended the longest playoff drought of any team in the 4 major sports leagues. I'm good with AA.

In the context Shatkins came into, they're doing the right things too with good results so far.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#17 » by GoRapstheoriginal » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:33 pm

Were not done evaluating Shapiro yet he still has draft picks to draft/trades to make & free agents to sign.

It's to early to do this, imo.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#18 » by ratul » Yesterday 10:36 am

Boy, the kool-aid. Shatkins remain TRASH. AA has locked up another division title while we have another .500 team. Five years on! Shats has only made the playoffs in FOUR of his TWENTY seasons, excluding this weird seeding pandemic season. What a joke of a GM and president.

I am not trolling - I am genuinely amazed at the support for a front office that has destroyed its performance, accepted a 5 year rebuild to nowhere and with a genuinely boring franchise team. While JD brings heat for the Twins and AA locks it up again.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#19 » by Fairview4Life » Yesterday 12:02 pm

Refusing to actually engage with any of the counter arguments and just repeating the same dumb crap over and over again is, in fact, trolling.
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Re: Shapiro/Atkins vs. Alex Anthopoulos 

Post#20 » by ratul » Today 12:23 am

Fairview4Life wrote:Refusing to actually engage with any of the counter arguments and just repeating the same dumb crap over and over again is, in fact, trolling.


How is saying Double A is amazing ‘crap’? He is a Canadian kid, led us to our best showing in 20 years and now is doing the same elsewhere. It might be repetitive but is there any other way to assess that objectively? He has clinched like 7 division titles in the past 10 years.

Also, the bringer of rain doesn’t care about your concerns. JD ops at 900 on the playoff bound twins so i think He is doing alright

An extension for Shapiro would be a disaster for this franchise.

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