4 out of the 5 top spending teams

Mak · Post #1 » by **Mak** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:13 am

Are in the playoffs. Salaries

We can blame JP all we want but until MLB fixes their system, how can we compete with teams that spend twice as much as we do.

There are always teams that have good seasons and make playoffs with a low payroll but those are exceptions. None of those surprising surprising teams compete against top two highest spending teams though.

Basically we are **** and won't make the playoffs for years to come unless MLB changes their CBA. We could have one of those seasons where everything goes right and make the playoffs but that requires a lot of luck.

Sai Young · Post #2 » by **Sai Young** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:01 am

why hasn't the mlb adapted a salary cap
like the nba
makes it more fair for everyone

Post #3 » by **Geddy** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:29 am

Ah don't worry. I don't think the playoffs are as far as you think.

Big money doesn't always guarantee success.

Mak · Post #4 » by **Mak** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:40 am

Sai Young wrote:why hasn't the mlb adapted a salary cap
like the nba
makes it more fair for everyone

Because MLB has the a very strong union. For a reason that nobody explained to me baseball players can go on strike just before the playoffs and no owner wants to lose another playoffs.

I don't know why but baseball CBA expires late in the season unlike all other leagues where it expires during offseason. In order to get a salary cap in MLB they will have to miss playoffs one year and possibly who season after. MLB will not do that, considering that they shown financial growth lately.

Mak · Post #5 » by **Mak** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:48 am

rkid wrote:Ah don't worry. I don't think the playoffs are as far as you think.

Big money doesn't always guarantee success.

I agree. If we had hitting of last year with pitching of this year maybe we would be in the playoffs right now. That is the problem though, we need a perfect season to clinch a playoff spot.

Yes, big money does not always guarantee success. You only have so many playoff spots not everybody can get in and you can totally mess up a team even with a big payroll. Boston and NY has been the only constant over the last 10 years now? I think its no coincidence that they have been spending the most money too.

MLB system is a mess...how can one team spend 190m and another 24m.

Post #6 » by **OldNo7** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:46 am

If you look at all of those big spending teams who are in the playoffs, they also have a lot of talent that made an impact from their minor league system.

Yanks: Cano, Cabrera, Hughes, Joba and the old regime like Jeter, Posada, Rivera

Mets: Reyes, Wright, Milledge (not making an impact yet), Maine, soon to be Pelfrey

Angels: where to begin...

Red Sox: Lester, Bucholz, Pedroia, Youkilis, Papelbon

Money can get you some things, but drafting properly and having a great minor league system is just as important, maybe moreso.

whiterasta80 · Post #7 » by **whiterasta80** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:16 pm

whosthebosh? wrote:If you look at all of those big spending teams who are in the playoffs, they also have a lot of talent that made an impact from their minor league system.

Yanks: Cano, Cabrera, Hughes, Joba and the old regime like Jeter, Posada, Rivera

Mets: Reyes, Wright, Milledge (not making an impact yet), Maine, soon to be Pelfrey

Angels: where to begin...

Red Sox: Lester, Bucholz, Pedroia, Youkilis, Papelbon

Money can get you some things, but drafting properly and having a great minor league system is just as important, maybe moreso.

At the same time wtb, those teams can afford giving ridiculously high signing bonuses to players who scare other teams off with their demands. The tigers realized this and have started adjusting (Maybin, Miller...) but its still a limited number of teams who will meet high demands. The system does not allow for a fair playing field in the draft any more than it does at the Major League level.

Post #8 » by **OldNo7** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:48 pm

The draft is a whole different can of worms, yet I agree it is related. But then you get into Foreign Free Agent Rookie signings (which these teams do have, and do tend to find great talent; again it could be the team's willingness to spend money to send scouts here there and everywhere).

My argument was in regard to the team payroll, which is what was posted in the article. These teams arent going out and signing Reyes and Cano to $100 million FA contracts, they are coming from within.

xAIRNESSx · Post #9 » by **xAIRNESSx** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:02 am

I hope the Jays plan to spend more now that the Canadian dollar is almost at par with its U.S. counterpart. There should be a ton of extra money for next year and I hope we can add a nice piece or two.

whiterasta80 · Post #10 » by **whiterasta80** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:24 pm

whosthebosh? wrote:My argument was in regard to the team payroll, which is what was posted in the article. These teams arent going out and signing Reyes and Cano to $100 million FA contracts, they are coming from within.

That's true... and thus far we've shown the ability financially to extend whomever we need to. Teams like the Twins are the real teams that are handicapped by this system- when Morneau is out of their control do you really expect him to be back? Santana??

Post #11 » by **OldNo7** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:26 pm

whiterasta80 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

That's true... and thus far we've shown the ability financially to extend whomever we need to. Teams like the Twins are the real teams that are handicapped by this system- when Morneau is out of their control do you really expect him to be back? Santana??

Hey its not like we didnt have this issue before. Remember the Delgado situation before Rogers OK'd extended payroll? Halladay was really the first one to say he wanted to stay and signed a cheap long-term extension and everything snowballed from there.

Post #12 » by **Harry Palmer** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:45 am

rkid wrote:Big money doesn't always guarantee success.

No, it doesn't. But not spending big money pretty much precludes it.

whiterasta80 · Post #13 » by **whiterasta80** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:02 am

Harry Palmer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

No, it doesn't. But not spending big money pretty much precludes it.

At least not in the AL East. The Marlins didn't have a huge payroll when they won the WS. Even the Angels payroll wasn't huge.

risktaker91 · Post #14 » by **risktaker91** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:43 pm

Indians (23rd) and D-Backs (26th) currently lead their respective divisions.

Jays don't need just an extended payroll, they have one of the worst farm systems in the MLB.

Michael Bradley · Post #15 » by **Michael Bradley** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:10 pm

whiterasta80 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-At the same time wtb, those teams can afford giving ridiculously high signing bonuses to players who scare other teams off with their demands. The tigers realized this and have started adjusting (Maybin, Miller...) but its still a limited number of teams who will meet high demands. The system does not allow for a fair playing field in the draft any more than it does at the Major League level.

Exactly. I find the drafting system to be much more of a detriment than payroll difference. Quite simply, the worst teams aren't drafting the best players. There's no excuse for the Jered Weaver's, and Scott Kazmir's, and Phil Hughes' of the world to slip to the rich/good teams because of signability issues. That would be like Greg Oden slipping to the Spurs because he's demanding a $10 million signing bonus that only the Spurs could afford (for example). That cheats the game a lot more than discrepancies in team salary, IMO.

Just this year, Rick Porcello was the top high school pitcher in the draft and he went 27th to the Tigers. He ended up getting something like $7 million in a signing bonus. That's ridiculous. This sort of thing happens every year, and will not end until MLB fixes it.

With all that said, it's not impossible to win on a smaller salary. The Twins and A's have done it for years, and the Indians are doing it now. It really depends on how a team uses the money it has. Scouting, player development, and trading is very important as well. It's much more difficult to win on a small payroll, but a huge payroll is not a necessity.

Toronto's issue is management. Ricciardi is a decent GM on a small payroll, but isn't good enough to work with a bigger one. He's not very good at recognizing the relative value of players and his 1st round picks from 2002-05 have amounted to one decent middle infielder (Hill). It's easy to use the payroll excuse (and JP uses it more than anyone else), but it's a management problem more than a payroll one. It wasn't the Yankees and Red Sox that forced Ricciardi to select Romero over Tulowitzki, for example (further beating that dead horse). I think that's used as a scapegoat far too often.

whiterasta80 · Post #16 » by **whiterasta80** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:29 pm

risktaker91 wrote:Indians (23rd) and D-Backs (26th) currently lead their respective divisions.

Jays don't need just an extended payroll, they have one of the worst farm systems in the MLB.

Our division kinda precludes success with a low payroll. Hell, the Devil Rays have had one of the best farm systems in MLB for years and can't get out of the cellar- but I'd like their chances in the NL West.