Game 162 - Baltimore Orioles (51-107) @ Toronto Blue Jays (88-71) - October 1-3

[Ong_dynasty]

I think it shows the potential of the team and it is a a learning curve for the young team.
Abit disappointing but what can we do. Atleast alot to look forward to.

[The_Hater]

Dan shulman has no chemistry with Tabler. It leads to a dull broadcast.

Shulman is the best MLB play by play man on the planet, Tabler might be the worst CC in MLB. Only 1 person is at fault for this.

Still waaaaay better than Buck/Tabler

Listening to him is exhausting and he sounds like every other pbp guy in baseball.

You’re takes are always the exact opposite of what 97% of people actually think. Amazing streak.

[C Court]

You also just got denied a promotion and your girlfriend has begun to play the field… It’s been a good run!?

Nah, man. Raise your expectations. This team was as dangerous as any. A wasted year. Unmitigatedly so.

Nah. It’s just a game and entertainment.

If a baseball team winning or losing means that much to you, then you need to rethink your priorities.

I raise my expectations for the success of my friends and family - not for a sports team.

I agree with the idea in general. But respectfully, it's odd to be posting on a sports forum full of sports fans telling people that sports shouldn't mean that much to them. Maybe today isn't the day for that.

Odd response. I simply made a positive post saying the future is bright and I am okay with the season. He replied and told me I needed to "raise my expectations" as a fan. My expectations are my expectations - not anyone else's.

So today was the day to reply.

[mdenny]

Stanton goes up to bat knowing the pitcher has to throw strikes and does not want to fall behind in the count.
His effectiveness and contact rate will inherently go up by a fairly significant margin because of that factor.

That is the factor that is the biggest for me. Player "X" whomever it is, gets much more comfortable at the place when the bases are loaded because the range of pitches should go down significantly. I would love to see the analytics on how much more effective a batter becomes with bases loaded and a tie game in late innings. And compare that to DP rates, Groundball Rates, Walk Rates, I really do not think there is a clear answer here especially in modern day when less balls are put in play.

Either way appreciate the good baseball argument. I miss those whether people think I am right or wrong. I lost a lot of passion for baseball after 1994 (in part the strike, in part university/work), and my passion took a last gut bunch when the Expos left in 2004. I was not a Jays fan at the time -- in fact I hated them in the early 90's when the Expos were somewhat competitive. Got over my hatred for the Jays when I lived in Toronto in the early 2000's,but never really got into them either. Appreciated getting into baseball and the Jays quite a bit more this year.

I was a hardcore baseball stat nerd as a kid before it got really advanced. I think I was the only 8/9/10 year old who religiously read Bill James and the Elias Baseball Analyst each year in the mid 80's. Stats were developing at that point (and not nearly as advanced as today but the underlying concepts of player value (good / bad) were certainly being formed and opinions were starting to change. Concepts like walks are underrated, empty batting averages, secondary averages, and then OPS at the end were filling my mind. And Ken Phelps should have been treated better!! I remember getting in arguments with other 11 year oldsexplaining that some guys who got 100RBI's were not nearly as good as they thought. As a 12 year old remember getting in a heated 30 minute discussion with my friend at the time that Tim Raines was better than Tim Wallach -- and he kept pointing to his 123 RBI's.

Anyway, I am digressing, but right or wrong I enjoy a good baseball argument. I enjoy the fact that tactics or norms in baseball have to change or be re-considered as eras and the way the game is played.

I guess another factor is that ypu could try to paint corners to judge with breaking balls knowing that a walk doesnt hurt you.

I think i read moneyball like 5 times in the aggregate lol. I love that book and i'm not even a baseball fan. There were so many intuitive things in that book that i wondered to myself when i was a kid and cheering for Willie Upshaw. Crazy to find out that so many of the stats were misleading because they were based on cricket.

I have the same intuition now when it comes to sacrifice flies. Seems to me that not nearly enough players/teams advance guys from 1st to second and even moreso from second to third on flyouts.

Ever heard that argument? There were a couple today in the relevant games including a rare first to second by the winning runner in the yanks game. Figure its just a matter of time til a team like tampa figure this out and the rest of the leagye follows.

I never actually read Moneyball. I was new to Toronto at the time, starting my career, and my interests were changing greatly, My conceptual base was Bill James in the 1980's and it set the conceptual basis for many things that were built on even more after that.... but I moved on from the analytics part of baseball by 15.

I am trying to understand your observation
#1. Are you saying that teams should tactically try for more fly balls that could turn into sac flies?
OR
#2. Are you saying that teams should be more aggressive on tagging up on flyballs?

I think your observation is #2. And I don't think teams will be any more aggressive in trying for that extra base via sac fly in the future. ***

A comparable would be the stolen base which is an "aggressive" move to gain an extra base. Many teams don't think the gamble is worth it and don't attempt many stolen bases. And that is even with the threat of a stolen base messing with pitcher's head which has value. The threat of taking that extra base on a sacrifice fly does not have the same "**** with the other teams head" value. I actually think the stolen base is a bit underrated in modern times. Not the actual value of getting that base, which is largely diminished in this low contact / high walk / high HR era. But many pitchers still seem to be bothered with guys on base that can steal, and that "**** with their head" has to help the batter be more effective.

*** Giving this further thought I think teams bail out on that potential extra base to often (especially first to second). Many long fly balls to center runners at first will just give up on the tag up, when there are probably situations where it is pretty easy to get. But players at first are generally never taught to tag up.... always go half way or more if you are at first on a fly ball.

I was thinking the 2nd to 3rd is passed up more often. Mostly by virtue of being a longer throw then second base. A typical example that always perplexes me.....Man on 2nd, no outs.....fly out to right field. Runner doesn't advance. Seems like a very common lost opportunity to set up a run-scoring sacrifice fly.

[C Court]

I think it shows the potential of the team and it is a a learning curve for the young team.
Abit disappointing but what can we do. Atleast alot to look forward to.

Exactly my thoughts. There are a lot of great things to look forward to. Just like we had a lot to look forward to after tough ends to the season with the young Jays of the mid-to-late 80's.

[Ong_dynasty]

Compared to even last year. this team i feel is so much better (lets hope we can keep ray or semien or 1 and find a decent replacement with the other).
If the team gets it, you feel it could be a good team for more than a year or 2. which is exciting. and it is not like our farm is depleted.

[johanliebert]

Shulman is the best MLB play by play man on the planet, Tabler might be the worst CC in MLB. Only 1 person is at fault for this.

Still waaaaay better than Buck/Tabler

Listening to him is exhausting and he sounds like every other pbp guy in baseball.

You’re takes are always the exact opposite of what 97% of people actually think. Amazing streak.

Lol you guys always make everything personal.

Dan is good at calling college basketball games. Dan hasn’t called enough games for you to start fabricating polls.

I’ve only had one consistent take this year and it’s about Charlie or managers in general being puppets. 97% of y’all don’t know what goes on behind the scenes lol.

[The_Hater]

I think it shows the potential of the team and it is a a learning curve for the young team.
Abit disappointing but what can we do. Atleast alot to look forward to.

Sorry I don’t agree with the first part of your post at all. The learning curve theory sounds like a cliche announcers always repeat that absolutely does not apply to this team.

We finished the season on a 24-9 run and outscored our opponents by 183 runs this season, we should have been pushing 100 wins, not wrestling with Boston, NY and Seattle for 5th place. The young guys were actually our most reliable players too. Vlade, Bo, Kirk, Monoah, Espinal, Jansen finished the season on a tear.

The main reason we didn’t make the playoffs was our old, experienced manager made far too many awful decisions in close games as outlined by Randle. Now we weren’t going to win all of those games he listed, but we should have won 4-5 of them.

You’re right that there’s lots to look forward too, but with injuries, poor seasons and unexpected regression, player turnover and our crowed division you also have to take your shots when they are in front of you. Tomorrow isn’t always better than today.

[Ong_dynasty]

Correct me if im wrong the manager is not really that experienced in managing a big league team.
I look at it as, for a team that as you say had 183 runs differential but struggled winning close games.. that cant be fully manager. but yea ofcourse tomorrow isnt always better. but this isnt 2015 / 2016 team that is old. you see the potential if you cant deny that

[Randle McMurphy]

Nah. It’s just a game and entertainment.

If a baseball team winning or losing means that much to you, then you need to rethink your priorities.

I raise my expectations for the success of my friends and family - not for a sports team.

I agree with the idea in general. But respectfully, it's odd to be posting on a sports forum full of sports fans telling people that sports shouldn't mean that much to them. Maybe today isn't the day for that.

Odd response. I simply made a positive post saying the future is bright and I am okay with the season. He replied and told me I needed to "raise my expectations" as a fan. My expectations are my expectations - not anyone else's.

So today was the day to reply.

I'd say what was odd was going onto an internet forum for sports fans and telling them they shouldn't care that much about sports on the day the season ended ("need to rethink your priorities"), but that's fine. In my view, yesterday for the Jays was the furthest thing from a positive but I grant you may have a different perspective.

[C Court]

I agree with the idea in general. But respectfully, it's odd to be posting on a sports forum full of sports fans telling people that sports shouldn't mean that much to them. Maybe today isn't the day for that.

Odd response. I simply made a positive post saying the future is bright and I am okay with the season. He replied and told me I needed to "raise my expectations" as a fan. My expectations are my expectations - not anyone else's.

So today was the day to reply.

I'd say what was odd was going onto an internet forum for sports fans and telling them they shouldn't care that much about sports on the day the season ended ("need to rethink your priorities"), but that's fine. In my view, yesterday for the Jays was the furthest thing from a positive but I grant you may have a different perspective.

How about a little context?

I made a short post about how I felt after the loss.

I’m not the least bit upset that the Jays season is over. They exceeded my expectations and the future is bright.

Thanks for an entertaining year!

Then I got an unsolicited response which told me "to raise my expectations". So it's okay for my opinion to be challenged, but it's not okay for me to respond? That makes no sense.

[EH15]

Shulman is the best MLB play by play man on the planet, Tabler might be the worst CC in MLB. Only 1 person is at fault for this.

Still waaaaay better than Buck/Tabler

Listening to him is exhausting and he sounds like every other pbp guy in baseball.

You’re takes are always the exact opposite of what 97% of people actually think. Amazing streak.

It's higher than that lol. It's borderline intentional at this point.

[The_Hater]

Correct me if im wrong the manager is not really that experienced in managing a big league team.
I look at it as, for a team that as you say had 183 runs differential but struggled winning close games.. that cant be fully manager. but yea ofcourse tomorrow isnt always better. but this isnt 2015 / 2016 team that is old. you see the potential if you cant deny that

It’s not fully on the manager, you’re right, but I pretty much said that in my post.

But when you only needed 1-2 more wins to get into the postseason, obviously every win counted and having a manager that in my estimation cost us 4-5 games more than having an average manager, that ends up being a very costly problem.

On top of this, Ive read our manager give two different excuses for the team missing the post season this week. So he has no problem deflecting

[LLJ]

Montoyo probably said he’s soooo proud of the team like a million times this week

[The_Hater]

Montoyo probably said he’s soooo proud of the team like a million times this week

His positive nature is his best attribute. The part that scares me most is I think the players really like him, and with so many Latinos on the team that likely trumps everything else and he keeps his job

[The_Hater]

Listening to him is exhausting and he sounds like every other pbp guy in baseball.

You’re takes are always the exact opposite of what 97% of people actually think. Amazing streak.

Lol you guys always make everything personal.

Dan is good at calling college basketball games. Dan hasn’t called enough games for you to start fabricating polls.

I’ve only had one consistent take this year and it’s about Charlie or managers in general being puppets. 97% of y’all don’t know what goes on behind the scenes lol.

Why do you think I took your opinion personally? I don’t know you. Who cares.

But you are the first person on this board in many years that has actually complained about Dan Schulman who is a star in his field, which as usual makes you an outlier. So I pointed it out.

[johanliebert]

What happened to buck martinez?

It’s a story nobody wants to touch. I’ve heard he’s not vaccinated from some and vaccinated from others, but like I said this is a story nobkdy wants to touch.

[radeonboy]

What happened to buck martinez?

It’s a story nobody wants to touch. I’ve heard he’s not vaccinated from some and vaccinated from others, but like I said this is a story nobkdy wants to touch.

Meh, watching these games I haven't really missed his voice tbh.

[The_Hater]

Meh, watching these games I haven't really missed his voice tbh.

Buck actually called one series in September from his Florida home, and then he was back on the shelf.

A full time Shulman with Siddel beside him would be an upgrade in my books. And Elliott Price, who used to call Expo games and I happen to know personally, is still kicking around and would be a huge PBP improvement on Buck. He told me he lost out to Wagner in the final interview for the Radio PBP job back in 2018. He’s got a great baseball voice.

[pilkoids]

Watching Barnes patience around the rim on offense is incredible. He rarely gets the ball swiped away and he doesn't just throw some **** up at the rim -he's very deliberate with the shot