GT: Blue Jays (2-3) @ Astros (1-4) / 3 game series - Monday April 1 @ 8pm to Wed April 3

[DelAbbot]

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[Fairview4Life]

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Yes, I am sure this is a function of Lourdes being Ted Williams and not the fact they played the Rockies 4 times. "The numbers speak for themselves" lol.

[xAIRNESSx]

Getting no hit by a guy named Blanco just feels right

[Randle McMurphy]

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A fair point.

[Potential]

Blue Jays and Mets easily the 2 biggest laughingstocks in baseball the last 2 years

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[Raps in 4]

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Yes, I am sure this is a function of Lourdes being Ted Williams and not the fact they played the Rockies 4 times. "The numbers speak for themselves" lol.

Lourdes sucks, but the problem is, so does Varsho.

We traded a 1.5+ fWAR player + a top-5 prospect in baseball for a 2.0+ fWAR player.

I think it's pretty clear Varsho's 4.8 fWAR season was an outlier (it's not like he even hit well that season).

It was a bad trade. People are getting hung up on the Lourdes vs. Varsho comparison. No, Lourdes wouldn't make us a better team. But neither does Varsho. It was a lateral trade in terms of prduction, except it included our top prospect, for some reason.

[Asianiac_24]

IMO at the time Gurriel + Moreno is the base of a package for a star player or top notch prospect. Not a prime KK

[Randle McMurphy]

No clue how some are still so attached to a no-hit prospect catcher (on a team with 2 catchers currently better than him) and a slightly better than replacement level corner outfielder who was available to be signed by anybody in the offseason. Even if Varsho never hits at all (and remains the best defensive player in the game as he was last season), the trade was and still is a net plus from a value perspective.

I'm guessing a lot of the focus on it comes back to that trash DBacks team making that lucky run to the WS because there are plenty of actual bad moves this FO has done that are worth criticizing.

[GameChannel]

Can't wait until this front office and the manager are fired. Bring Gibby back and hand the front office to a monkey. That will produce better results than these clowns.

[Raps in 4]

No clue how some are still so attached to a no-hit prospect catcher (on a team with 2 catchers currently better than him) and a slightly better than replacement level corner outfielder who was available to be signed by anybody in the offseason. Even if Varsho never hits at all (and remains the best defensive player in the game as he was last season), the trade was and still is a net plus from a value perspective.

I'm guessing a lot of the focus on it comes back to that trash DBacks team making that lucky run to the WS because there are plenty of actual bad moves this FO has done that are worth criticizing.

The hang up is on the fact that Varsho isn't that good and that Moreno had enough perceived value at the time to be the centrepiece in a trade for a better player than that. Varsho might be worth 1 win over Lourdes, and that's being generous. We got back an all-word defender, but also one of the worst hitters in the game.

[Mehar]

Man... I haven't been this mad in a while. I legitimately might be more angry with this garbage 5 games into the season where we course corrected from the brutal end to last year.

Rogers is a complete joke. I bet you those Rogers owners of the Blue Jay ads that were airing during the Rays series get pulled.

Why would anyone have been excited about this season? We went into the season with a worse roster than the one we trotted out last season, and that one was already miserable. This FO doesn't care about winning.

You remember when Shapiro said the goal (owners gave them) is to build that team that can consistently get into the playoffs (without mention of how deep into the playoffs). They are aiming for that and to expect some 2015 magic is just foolishness.

This is a 227M wild-card team.

People need to be less critical of Rogers Ownership. The owners have given the front office the 7th highest payroll in MLB (247 million luxury tax payroll). That is two million shy of the world champs Texas. The front office then spends 18 million of that money in the off-season on KK and IKF. They sign Chad Green for two years and 21 million based on his Shaky appearances the last month of the 2023 season, when the logical move would have been to exercise the 1 year 6.5 million option on him instead.

To maximize Varsho's value, he needed to be in CF with another solid bat to complement him in LF for 2024. Gurriel was the guy I wanted back in LF in free agency (making the same 10 million in 2024 as KK). With the offense struggles from last year, KK and Varsho together in the lineup was not the right course of action for 2024. IKF for 2 years and 15 million was laughable, given how the Yankees had no desire to bring him back even for one year since he was a below average hitter. The farm system is one of the worst in MLB. People mentioning how Soto would have been great in a Jays uniform, but what farm assets did this team really have? Not much compared to what the Yankees could offer.

Still only 5 games in. If the Jays are 4th or 5th in the AL East like I think they will be come trade deadline in July- Schneider should not be the fall guy, but the man who threw him under the bus foolishly which is Ross Atkins. Replace him internally with James Click who actually has built teams in Houston that have won the World Series with multiple AL Pennants also, instead of embarrassing Wild Card losses under Atkins. Shapiro is not going anywhere. Have that guy focus strictly on the stadium renovations and keep his hands out of the personnel decisions. Shapiro and Atkins have worked together since 2001. Zero Championship Rings is their legacy together since Cleveland. Year 9 of their tenure in Toronto, and their promise of having one of the best farm systems year in and year out is yet to be fulfilled. Funny how Shapiro criticized Alex Anthopoulos for a weak farm system in 2015. Alex is having the last laugh in Atlanta, with multiple Pennants and a World Series banner.

[Raps in 4]

Why would anyone have been excited about this season? We went into the season with a worse roster than the one we trotted out last season, and that one was already miserable. This FO doesn't care about winning.

You remember when Shapiro said the goal (owners gave them) is to build that team that can consistently get into the playoffs (without mention of how deep into the playoffs). They are aiming for that and to expect some 2015 magic is just foolishness.

This is a 227M wild-card team.

People need to be less critical of Rogers Ownership. The owners have given the front office the 7th highest payroll in MLB (247 million luxury tax payroll). That is two million shy of the world champs Texas. The front office then spends 18 million of that money in the off-season on KK and IKF. They sign Chad Green for two years and 21 million based on his Shaky appearances the last month of the 2023 season, when the logical move would have been to exercise the 1 year 6.5 million option on him instead.

To maximize Varsho's value, he needed to be in CF with another solid bat to complement him in LF for 2024. Gurriel was the guy I wanted back in LF in free agency (making the same 10 million in 2024 as KK). With the offense struggles from last year, KK and Varsho together in the lineup was not the right course of action for 2024. IKF for 2 years and 15 million was laughable, given how the Yankees had no desire to bring him back even for one year since he was a below average hitter. The farm system is one of the worst in MLB. People mentioning how Soto would have been great in a Jays uniform, but what farm assets did this team really have? Not much compared to what the Yankees could offer.

Still only 5 games in. If the Jays are 4th or 5th in the AL East like I think they will be come trade deadline in July- Schneider should not be the fall guy, but the man who threw him under the bus foolishly which is Ross Atkins. Replace him internally with James Click who actually has built teams in Houston that have won the World Series with multiple AL Pennants also, instead of embarrassing Wild Card losses under Atkins. Shapiro is not going anywhere. Have that guy focus strictly on the stadium renovations and keep his hands out of the personnel decisions. Shapiro and Atkins have worked together since 2001. Zero Championship Rings is their legacy together since Cleveland. Year 9 of their tenure in Toronto, and their promise of having one of the best farm systems year in and year out is yet to be fulfilled. Funny how Shapiro criticized Alex Anthopoulos for a weak farm system in 2015. Alex is having the last laugh in Atlanta, with multiple Pennants and a World Series banner.

Ed fired AA and hired this clown show. He's also given them an absurdly long leash to **** up the team. The current state of the team is absolutely on him.

[Madvillainy2004]

IMO at the time Gurriel + Moreno is the base of a package for a star player or top notch prospect. Not a prime KK

What star players were out there? Lourdes was coming off a 5 homerun season and was a pending FA. I think everyone would've loved Bryan Reynolds but he wasn't exactly all that great last year and commanded a pretty huge contract. Varsho would've led the 2022 Jays in fWAR, there was decent reason to believe that wasn't his ceiling.

There's plenty of other moves/players worthy of criticism. Signing IKF for no reason (leading to less abs for Davis), bringing back KK when Varsho is better at CF and the offense desperately needed some juice. Chad Green lol. Plus our top prospects Vlad and Manoah combining for negative fWAR last year isn't their fault but definitely worth more discussion.

[Lateral Quicks]

No clue how some are still so attached to a no-hit prospect catcher (on a team with 2 catchers currently better than him) and a slightly better than replacement level corner outfielder who was available to be signed by anybody in the offseason. Even if Varsho never hits at all (and remains the best defensive player in the game as he was last season), the trade was and still is a net plus from a value perspective.

Even if that were true - and it isn't - why would you hide the best defensive outfielder in baseball in LF? Most of Varsho's value as a player comes defensively, so you would think a priority would be putting him in CF. Yet for some inexplicable reason, they brought back Kiermaier. Then they took a look at a lineup with both Varsho and Kiermaier, and said to themselves: "Not enough crapinness". So they brought in IKF to make Varsho and Kiermaier look like offensive dynamos. And now we are stuck with a trifecta of terribleness in the everyday lineup. You aren't serious about winning if those three guys are in your lineup.

My only hope for the season is that Clement and Schneider tune out Guillermo and hit enough to justify regular playing time. Probably not, though, cause the brain(less) trust has already determined Schneider is a platoon player.

[Madvillainy2004]

No clue how some are still so attached to a no-hit prospect catcher (on a team with 2 catchers currently better than him) and a slightly better than replacement level corner outfielder who was available to be signed by anybody in the offseason. Even if Varsho never hits at all (and remains the best defensive player in the game as he was last season), the trade was and still is a net plus from a value perspective.

Even if that were true - and it isn't - why would you hide the best defensive outfielder in baseball in LF? Most of Varsho's value as a player comes defensively, so you would think a priority would be putting him in CF. Yet for some inexplicable reason, they brought back Kiermaier. Then they took a look at a lineup with both Varsho and Kiermaier, and said to themselves: "Not enough crapinness". So they brought in IKF to make Varsho and Kiermaier look like offensive dynamos. And now we are stuck with a trifecta of terribleness in the everyday lineup. You aren't serious about winning if those three guys are in your lineup.

My only hope for the season is that Clement and Schneider tune out Guillermo and hit enough to justify regular playing time. Probably not, though, cause the brain(less) trust has already determined Schneider is a platoon player.

He literally is tho, he had insane DRS for CF and he only played like 200ish innings there. Varsho isn't being hidden in LF lol but yes it is dumb to bring back KK when the clear move was Varsho in CF and getting a hitting LFer. Not sure on the FA market but they could've tried to swing a trade for someone.

[Ranger One]

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But.. But... Best defensive center fielder in baseball history!! And Moreno is not even a top 35 catcher!! We got top 5 catcher Kirk who is so obese he can't even beat out an infield single! And another catcher who can barely play 70 games a season! Who needs a young, ATHLETIC, stud of a catcher that will only get better and better with every passing season?? Certainly not the Blue Jays!

[WuTang_CMB]

only 5th game in and a no hitter
joke team

[DelAbbot]

Why would anyone have been excited about this season? We went into the season with a worse roster than the one we trotted out last season, and that one was already miserable. This FO doesn't care about winning.

You remember when Shapiro said the goal (owners gave them) is to build that team that can consistently get into the playoffs (without mention of how deep into the playoffs). They are aiming for that and to expect some 2015 magic is just foolishness.

This is a 227M wild-card team.

People need to be less critical of Rogers Ownership. The owners have given the front office the 7th highest payroll in MLB (247 million luxury tax payroll). That is two million shy of the world champs Texas. The front office then spends 18 million of that money in the off-season on KK and IKF. They sign Chad Green for two years and 21 million based on his Shaky appearances the last month of the 2023 season, when the logical move would have been to exercise the 1 year 6.5 million option on him instead.

To maximize Varsho's value, he needed to be in CF with another solid bat to complement him in LF for 2024. Gurriel was the guy I wanted back in LF in free agency (making the same 10 million in 2024 as KK). With the offense struggles from last year, KK and Varsho together in the lineup was not the right course of action for 2024. IKF for 2 years and 15 million was laughable, given how the Yankees had no desire to bring him back even for one year since he was a below average hitter. The farm system is one of the worst in MLB. People mentioning how Soto would have been great in a Jays uniform, but what farm assets did this team really have? Not much compared to what the Yankees could offer.

Still only 5 games in. If the Jays are 4th or 5th in the AL East like I think they will be come trade deadline in July- Schneider should not be the fall guy, but the man who threw him under the bus foolishly which is Ross Atkins. Replace him internally with James Click who actually has built teams in Houston that have won the World Series with multiple AL Pennants also, instead of embarrassing Wild Card losses under Atkins. Shapiro is not going anywhere. Have that guy focus strictly on the stadium renovations and keep his hands out of the personnel decisions. Shapiro and Atkins have worked together since 2001. Zero Championship Rings is their legacy together since Cleveland. Year 9 of their tenure in Toronto, and their promise of having one of the best farm systems year in and year out is yet to be fulfilled. Funny how Shapiro criticized Alex Anthopoulos for a weak farm system in 2015. Alex is having the last laugh in Atlanta, with multiple Pennants and a World Series banner.

All fair points, but how is this embarrassment of a FO not being held accountable by ownership? There is enough media and public outcry for their incompetence already.

[DelAbbot]

only 5th game in and a no hitter
joke team

"Pitchers are always ahead of hitters in April... It's a long season... Losses in April don't mean much"

[DelAbbot]

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But.. But... Best defensive center fielder in baseball history!! And Moreno is not even a top 35 catcher!! We got top 5 catcher Kirk who is so obese he can't even beat out an infield single! And another catcher who can barely play 70 games a season! Who needs a young, ATHLETIC, stud of a catcher that will only get better and better with every passing season?? Certainly not the Blue Jays!

Why are we not using a top defensive CF in CF? I'm seriously asking.

I know Rogers Center has slightly more spacious LF but's definitely not enough to warrant starting two defensive CF's