General Blue Jays Thread

[Ado05]

The feds are embarrassing, to say the least.

[Michael Bradley]

If Canada doesn't allow unvaccinated players to play there, then I don't think the MLB player's association is going to even bother with it. They'll just finish the season in Buffalo and then hope whatever political reasoning behind this delay is over with by next March.

[mini]

Should be an easy enough work-around.

Dome needs to be open.
Unvaxed players need to quarantine during their stay (we have a hotel attached to the ballpark).
Masks worn while inside the building.

I don't see what the other major issues would be.

[I_Like_Dirt]

I don't understand what's confusing about all this.

MLS says it's operating within existing policies and only vaccinated personnel will travel. No decision is needed for this. The policy already exists.

When asked if everything had been approved, the federal government said no since the only approval required based on existing policies is by border services agents on arrival. They can't guarantee that before it happens.

MLS says it is still constantly in communication with the Federal and local governments on the issue. Of course they would be. They don't want their plans thrown into chaos by a sudden policy change they didn't know was coming.

Sports reporters: nothing has been approved so this is one big mess and we need to find the person responsible for the whole thing in the government so we can get their official statement (showing a profound misunderstanding of how governments work, to say nothing of the policies on which their reporting).

It could be any number of things going on but right now everything reported makes sense. The rules are already laid out and I'm not aware of anything in the current regulations that would get in the way. The government won't grant prior approval to border crossings because they never do and they'd be in a lose-lose situation if some coach tried to pull a Damon Stoudemire or some player wasn't actually vaccinated.

MLB is an entirely different can of worms since I presume the league and player's union both take issue with the existing vaccination requirement for different reasons. As far as I can tell, MLS seems okay with the whole deal and if they are, they could be actually doing it right.

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[polo007]

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[I_Like_Dirt]

Why bother going to the website for the clearly spelled out rules when you can create a make-believe crisis about nothing until you get the Health Minister to confirm that those clearly spelled out rules are accurate?

[Randle McMurphy]

Should be an easy enough work-around.

Dome needs to be open.
Unvaxed players need to quarantine during their stay (we have a hotel attached to the ballpark).
Masks worn while inside the building.

I don't see what the other major issues would be.

I wouldn’t try to use logic here. If logic was being used, the Jays would have been playing here for months now. The major issue is that this isn’t hockey and it isn’t a politically popular decision to grant the same exemption given to the NHL for a few American baseball teams. Too much risk for them (and not of the health kind).

[SharoneWright]

Authoritarianism is the new style!

However an olive branch will be extended by the benevolent dictator during election season. And then we shall vote, with many polling stations surrounding the Rogers centre for our convenience! Plus free bread!

[I_Like_Dirt]

Should be an easy enough work-around.

Dome needs to be open.
Unvaxed players need to quarantine during their stay (we have a hotel attached to the ballpark).
Masks worn while inside the building.

I don't see what the other major issues would be.

I wouldn’t try to use logic here. If logic was being used, the Jays would have been playing here for months now. The major issue is that this isn’t hockey and it isn’t a politically popular decision to grant the same exemption given to the NHL for a few American baseball teams. Too much risk for them (and not of the health kind).

What are you even talking about? If all those things were the only issues then games would be playing here. They don't even need the dome to be open as far as I'm aware as that's a provincial deal - same goes for masks.

The only issue at play here is the border crossing - that's the federal part. Fully vaccinated people can cross the border without quarantine already. They need to upload proof of vaccination that gets assessed at the border but teams can take care of that.

The absolutely only real issue is unvaccinated players and staff who would have to quarantine after crossing the border and therefore couldn't realistically participate in what's going on. The entire push seems to be about opening the border to unvaccinated people without quarantine in a very visible way.

I'm not so sure it's just the union fighting this one, either, though I'm sure they don't like it. I suspect MLB doesn't want to risk getting caught up in the whole proof of vaccination debate right now. That's basically the only barrier right now, though: leagues being willing to accept collective vaccinations in the same way hospitals and such are. There wouldn't need to be some major federal government pronouncement or anything if that were the case.

[bluerap23]

Should be an easy enough work-around.

I suspect MLB doesn't want to risk getting caught up in the whole proof of vaccination debate right now. That's basically the only barrier right now, though: leagues being willing to accept collective vaccinations in the same way hospitals and such are. There wouldn't need to be some major federal government pronouncement or anything if that were the case.

This is likely the greater issue. Players gonna get outed.

[Randle McMurphy]

What are you even talking about?

I'm talking about the fact that the federal government granted an exemption to the NHL/the Habs to bring unvaccinated NHL players in across the border on multiple occasions to play hockey. This happened literally less than a month ago.

The fact that the same exemption to the rules has not been granted to MLB/the Jays for the remainder of the season has nothing to do with science, vaccinations, positivity rates or anything else (just as keeping a few hundred regularly tested MLB players out in the first place never had anything to do with it either). It has to do with political optics and reducing the risk of any sort of political/election blowback if **** ever hit the fan.

[Randle McMurphy]

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[I_Like_Dirt]

What are you even talking about?

I'm talking about the fact that the federal government granted an exemption to the NHL/the Habs to bring unvaccinated NHL players in across the border on multiple occasions to play hockey. This happened literally less than a month ago.

The fact that the same exemption to the rules has not been granted to MLB/the Jays for the remainder of the season has nothing to do with science, vaccinations, positivity rates or anything else (just as keeping a few hundred regularly tested MLB players out in the first place never had anything to do with it either). It has to do with political optics and reducing the risk of any sort of political/election blowback if **** ever hit the fan.

(1) then why quote something talking about different things entirely?

(2) surely you can see the difference between two rounds of playoffs where they were banned from shared facilities, contact with the public, were still subject to testing, and effectively created a bubble-like quarantine zone just before the borders were opened to vaccinated people to what you're proposing.

Do you have any evidence that MLB has proposed creating bubble-like environments for every Jays series? I haven't heard of anything like that. And MLB actually has an existing out that hockey didn't have at the time. I don't watch hockey anymore (haven't for years now) or care about it at all but your argument reeks of bad faith. To me the bigger issue here feels like MLB than it does the federal government. The NHL figured things out. MLS has figured things out. I suspect the NBA will figure things out for next season and if so, MLB will be the lone exception and it wouldn't be be because of an anti-baseball bias.

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[Randle McMurphy]

(1) then why quote something talking about different things entirely?

How were they talking about something different entirely? That poster discussed the issue as if it was a practical one that could be solved with logic. It can't. The impediments to this plan are entirely political.

(2) surely you can see the difference between two rounds of playoffs where they were banned from shared facilities, contact with the public, were still subject to testing, and effectively created a bubble-like quarantine zone just before the borders were opened to vaccinated people to what you're proposing.

There is no difference in substance in what MLB/the Jays are asking for in comparison to what the NHL got beyond the duration of the exemption. This is an entirely specious argument.

Do you have any evidence that MLB has proposed creating bubble-like environments for every Jays series? I haven't heard of anything like that. And MLB actually has an existing out that hockey didn't have at the time. I don't watch hockey anymore (haven't for years now) or care about it at all but your argument reeks of bad faith. To me the bigger issue here feels like MLB than it does the federal government. The NHL figured things out. MLS has figured things out. I suspect the NBA will figure things out for next season and if so, MLB will be the lone exception and it wouldn't be be because of an anti-baseball bias.

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This is what the Jays have proposed, a proposal quite literally modelled on exactly what the NHL sought (with respect to non-vaccinated individuals). Any attempt to distinguish the two is quite literally splitting hairs. MLB is not the issue right now and very far from it (the MLBPA is also reportedly on board as well).

[polo007]

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[I_Like_Dirt]

(1) then why quote something talking about different things entirely?

How were they talking about something different entirely? That poster discussed the issue as if it was a practical one that could be solved with logic. It can't. The impediments to this plan are entirely political.

(2) surely you can see the difference between two rounds of playoffs where they were banned from shared facilities, contact with the public, were still subject to testing, and effectively created a bubble-like quarantine zone just before the borders were opened to vaccinated people to what you're proposing.

There is no difference in substance in what MLB/the Jays are asking for in comparison to what the NHL got beyond the duration of the exemption. This is an entirely specious argument.

Do you have any evidence that MLB has proposed creating bubble-like environments for every Jays series? I haven't heard of anything like that. And MLB actually has an existing out that hockey didn't have at the time. I don't watch hockey anymore (haven't for years now) or care about it at all but your argument reeks of bad faith. To me the bigger issue here feels like MLB than it does the federal government. The NHL figured things out. MLS has figured things out. I suspect the NBA will figure things out for next season and if so, MLB will be the lone exception and it wouldn't be be because of an anti-baseball bias.

Read on Twitter

This is what the Jays have proposed, a proposal quite literally modelled on exactly what the NHL sought (with respect to non-vaccinated individuals). Any attempt to distinguish the two is quite literally splitting hairs. MLB is not the issue right now and very far from it (the MLBPA is also reportedly on board as well).

This is literally from 2 days ago for the end of the month and hasn't been turned down or anything either.

But it's not the same no matter how much you want it to be. The whole teams quarantined in the NHL scenario, not just the non-vaccinated. And they didn't have any means of otherwise crossing the border without quarantine at that time, vaccinated or otherwise. The MLB has made a proposal that is basically trying to the advantages of the NHL deal and more advantages the existing rules (the ones MLS is operating under) to combine them together and then you blame the government for taking some time to assess things?

This may be allowed but if it is, it sets a new bar that every league is going to expect and other industries will expect as well - think concerts, conferences, etc. And the Yankees are busy right now trying to demonstrate why putting a bunch of vaccinated people in close confines with a bunch of unvaccinated people and then letting those vaccinated people do whatever without quarantine could prove to be a bad idea.

Instead of all this posturing and wannabe bargaining, MLB could have just decided to operate under the existing rules like MLS did. They decided not to and because of that things are taking longer.

[polo007]

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[bluerap23]

Authoritarianism is the new style!

However an olive branch will be extended by the benevolent dictator during election season. And then we shall vote, with many polling stations surrounding the Rogers centre for our convenience! Plus free bread!

Calling this authoritarianism is way too dramatic. I get it - you don't like our government, but how about a real take.

[polo007]

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[The_Hater]

I know pitching is the biggest need and number 1 priority and the offense is fine the way it is but
if the Jays could get Nelson Cruz without giving up to much whether it's as a rental or if he decides
to play another year that would be pretty wild especially to block him from going to another AL
contender. I would have to get MLB the Show to play with our video game offense.

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Not that I mind getting Cruz, depending on what we have to send the other day. HE's a DH only, so who sits now (Gurriel / Randall?)

Cruz to me seems like an unnecessary luxury, not a necessity. Aside from pitching, a 3B is a bigger need and I like that they can give players a day of rest in the DH spot.