ALCS Game #5 - Toronto at Seattle (Friday, 6:08)

[PushDaRock]

Stuff hasn't been the issue (for the most part) with Hoffman. It's command.

Command matters a lot when you're facing Cal Raleigh in a one run game.

But, his command is off when his stuff isn't sharp. When he's not being overworked which he has been at many points in the season as we found ourselves in a ton of close games, he's been decent.

His command has been off basically all the time for months now. Except for oddly yesterday.

Anyway, I don't trust him and I don't believe you do either.

We also know for sure now that the Jays don't really either.

I don't trust any of them, but you have to pick someone

[JCP11]

We're gonna pretend that ppl aren't being disingenuous when they say "we should have used Hoffman". Yah let's look through their posting history to see what they REALLY think about Hoffman lol.

I do not trust Coughman or Little. But if the options were down to those two, I still go with Coughman based on how atrocious Little has been since end of August. Especially Righties smashing him, and the number of walks he issues. His control is a lot worse than Hoffman's. That is saying something.

Dude, if Hoffman blew this game there would be more outrage in this thread than there is currently. He's the most hated reliever on the roster.

No because he's their guy. I would be mad at Hoff but not the coaches.

[Potential]

We're on a 2 game losing streak at home. We need to go on a quick 2 game winning streak like we've been doing all year and we'll be hosting game 1 of the world series

[Chris7711]

You guys fought hard! Geno was just too good!

I know the Mariners haven't been to an ALCS in 24 years but it's a 7 game series

This may not age well...jays are very capable of winning next 2

[PushDaRock]

We're gonna pretend that ppl aren't being disingenuous when they say "we should have used Hoffman". Yah let's look through their posting history to see what they REALLY think about Hoffman lol.

I do not trust Coughman or Little. But if the options were down to those two, I still go with Coughman based on how atrocious Little has been since end of August. Especially Righties smashing him, and the number of walks he issues. His control is a lot worse than Hoffman's. That is saying something.

Dude, if Hoffman blew this game there would be more outrage in this thread than there is currently. He's the most hated reliever on the roster.

yeah, but guaranteed entertaining outcome if he's in the game.

[linery88]

Little had only given up 1 run in his last 8 appearances so I guess it’s not completely aggregious

Luck lol.His balls bounce way too much.Schneider had to know he had better options with their mashers coming up.Even Fluharty who stymied the Dodgers in LA,or Hoffman whos velo is up lately,and cruised last night would have been better.Little has no command,and cant be trusted.Noone on this board wanted Little.

[Randle McMurphy]

But, his command is off when his stuff isn't sharp. When he's not being overworked which he has been at many points in the season as we found ourselves in a ton of close games, he's been decent.

His command has been off basically all the time for months now. Except for oddly yesterday.

Anyway, I don't trust him and I don't believe you do either.

We also know for sure now that the Jays don't really either.

I don't trust any of them, but you have to pick someone

Then we were probably doomed anyway in a one run game. We have easily the worst bullpen remaining of any team in the playoffs and that's gonna invariably come back to burn us in close games like this.

I think using Little wasn't the right move, but the alternative is not so obvious that it should be considered the worst move in Jays history or whatever that some are trying to paint it as. It's not even close to as bad as him pulling Berrios (FO directed) or pulling Gausman for Mayza in the 8-1 game for just one example.

The media is going on about how he should have trusted our "best guys" but our best guy is apparently the reliever who allowed the most HRs in major league baseball this year. It's just not a good situation to be in as a manager lol

[mdenny]

We're gonna pretend that ppl aren't being disingenuous when they say "we should have used Hoffman". Yah let's look through their posting history to see what they REALLY think about Hoffman lol.

Literally just go look at game 4 just last week when Hoffman looked absolutely terrible against the Yankees and see what people actually think of the guy.

Yep. One might even interpret the decisions as moving OFF from Hoffman which is what EVERYONE has been begging them to do for like 2 or 3 months.

Looked like they wanted to use Little against the LH home run threats and then Dominguez to close it out. Which is alot more aligned with what most ppl want than they are willing to admit.

Maybe i'm nuts...but i also wouldve preferred Fluharty to Little. But i guess that would get even more criticism if it didnt work out.

I'm just seeing how phoney all this pro-Hoffman stuff is lol. I think everyone has been correct....Hoffman looks completely shook. Even when he has a 6 run lead....he looks like he does NOT want to be on the mound.

[Mehar]

I do not trust Coughman or Little. But if the options were down to those two, I still go with Coughman based on how atrocious Little has been since end of August. Especially Righties smashing him, and the number of walks he issues. His control is a lot worse than Hoffman's. That is saying something.

Dude, if Hoffman blew this game there would be more outrage in this thread than there is currently. He's the most hated reliever on the roster.

yeah, but guaranteed entertaining outcome if he's in the game.

So you would have gone with Little given how Righties have been smashing him along with his control problems? (Lol). You are out of your mind. I would have done what you did 24 hours ago. Varland in 7th, Hoffman in 8th and Dominguez in 9th. Too complicated for Schneider and the people in this thread.

[Randle McMurphy]

You guys fought hard! Geno was just too good!

I know the Mariners haven't been to an ALCS in 24 years but it's a 7 game series

This may not age well...jays are very capable of winning next 2

I just know I wouldn't be entering Mariners game threads after going up 3-2 in a 7 game playoff series.

[PushDaRock]

His command has been off basically all the time for months now. Except for oddly yesterday.

Anyway, I don't trust him and I don't believe you do either.

We also know for sure now that the Jays don't really either.

I don't trust any of them, but you have to pick someone

Then we were probably doomed anyway in a one run game. We have easily the worst bullpen remaining of any team in the playoffs and that's gonna invariably come back to burn us in close games like this.

I think using Little wasn't the right move, but the alternative is not so obvious that it should be considered the worst move in Jays history or whatever that some are trying to paint it as. It's not even close to as bad as him pulling Berrios (FO directed) or pulling Gausman for Mayza in the 8-1 game for just one example.

The media is going on about how he should have trusted our "best guys" but our best guy is apparently the reliever who allowed the most HRs in major league baseball this year. It's just not a good situation to be in as a manager lol

We already knew this going into the playoffs. Unless we were willing to trade Yesavage, we weren't getting a shutdown closer.

[C Court]

I think this was a decision made by the organization before the game to pitch Little. They had Little up early and they eventually put him in, even though the situation didn’t make sense with the heart of the order with two switch hitters and a lefty up.

Some Ivy League kid likely provided Atkins/Schneider/Walker with data that suggested that Little was the right guy to pitch at some point during this game and the skipper went with it.

[linery88]

You guys fought hard! Geno was just too good!

I know the Mariners haven't been to an ALCS in 24 years but it's a 7 game series

This may not age well...jays are very capable of winning next 2

Without Springer ?
After a crushing loss like this.
Schneider 3x is a charm for post season boneheaded moves that led to losses.
So we dont give Hoffman,a guy we had no choice but to use when his velo was down due to exhaustion,but whos velo is now back up,and both him and Rodriguez have splitters.Sometimes RHP get out LHB.
You are correct that they are capable ,but the feeling of that capability has been diminished by a dumb stupid similiar moves to other playoff debacles.
This feels like a sucker punch to the gut.

[Randle McMurphy]

We're gonna pretend that ppl aren't being disingenuous when they say "we should have used Hoffman". Yah let's look through their posting history to see what they REALLY think about Hoffman lol.

Literally just go look at game 4 just last week when Hoffman looked absolutely terrible against the Yankees and see what people actually think of the guy.

Yep. One might even interpret the decisions as moving OFF from Hoffman which is what EVERYONE has been begging them to do for like 2 or 3 months.

Looked like they wanted to use Little against the LH home run threats and then Dominguez to close it out. Which is alot more aligned with what most ppl want than they are willing to admit.

Maybe i'm nuts...but i also wouldve preferred Fluharty to Little. But i guess that would get even more criticism if it didnt work out.

I'm just seeing how phoney all this pro-Hoffman stuff is lol.

The pro-Hoffman stuff is complete hindsight nonsense.

And yeah, I interpret it as them not trusting Hoffman all that much. Let's face it, if they did trust him that much, they wouldn't be using him in these massive leads that they've used him in the playoffs so far. They would use him like all other teams use their closers/top RPs...in close games.

I think Little has shown himself to be a choker in the playoffs so far and his command is so poor that he's not somebody I'd trust with your season on the line, but I think the Jays thought the worst that might happen was just a couple of walks before Dominguez came in (given how hard it has been to hit Little). It unfortunately ended up being a whole lot worse than that.

[PushDaRock]

End of the day, both teams had the bases loaded with no out. One team scored 0 runs and the other scored 4. That's the ball game.

[Randle McMurphy]

I think this was a decision made by the organization before the game to pitch Little. They had Little up early and they eventually put him in, even though the situation didn’t make sense with the heart of the order with two switch hitters and a lefty up.

Some Ivy League kid likely provided Atkins/Schneider/Walker with data that suggested that Little was the right guy to pitch at some point during this game and the skipper went with it.

They probably looked at his HR rate and thought he wouldn't allow a HR to Cal.

So much for that.

[Randle McMurphy]

I don't trust any of them, but you have to pick someone

Then we were probably doomed anyway in a one run game. We have easily the worst bullpen remaining of any team in the playoffs and that's gonna invariably come back to burn us in close games like this.

I think using Little wasn't the right move, but the alternative is not so obvious that it should be considered the worst move in Jays history or whatever that some are trying to paint it as. It's not even close to as bad as him pulling Berrios (FO directed) or pulling Gausman for Mayza in the 8-1 game for just one example.

The media is going on about how he should have trusted our "best guys" but our best guy is apparently the reliever who allowed the most HRs in major league baseball this year. It's just not a good situation to be in as a manager lol

We already knew this going into the playoffs. Unless we were willing to trade Yesavage, we weren't getting a shutdown closer.

Yes, we did. And we've been playing over our heads despite it due primarily to Vlad and a few others going on a complete heater.

Our time may finally be running out though.

[linery88]

The main point here is anybody else would have been better than Little.Its that simple.Hoffman has better command than Little,any day of the week.Its a long list of who would have made more sense than Little.They only have so many choices.Hoffman would have been a better choice,along with others.

[Mehar]

One thing we can all agree on is that the bullpen needs a major facelift for 2026. Use your payroll flexibility to add three more quality strike throwing relievers in the off-season. Move Hoffman to a 7th and 8th Inning guy next year where he excelled in Philadelphia. Get another Closer and Left Handed Specialist especially. Guys like Little, Dominguez, Nance, and Bruihl should not be in a Jays uniform in 2026.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Strange..gausman has been our best pitcher and we lost both his starts..ughhh

no offense lol but we were so unlucky this game lol esp that Clement swing bunt lol