2025 Blue Jays Offseason Thread

[polo007]

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[Mehar]

I just came in here to say we need to move on from Varsho. Can’t carry him and Jimenez in the lineup at the same time. Given Jimenez’ extemely expensive contract, I doubt we’d find suitors for him. So I’d like us to tender Varsho and then ship him off somewhere else so he can whiff away all he wants.

Rest of the team I’m cool with.

I absolutely agree with you. Ideally, I would be fine if Varsho was the Number 9 hitter for this team next year at a 1 year deal for 10 million in a Kevin Kiermaier role. However, we already have a Number 9 hitter like Gimenez getting paid 86.5 million the next 4 years (15 million next year, 23 million the next three years after that) and 2.5 million buyout in Year 5.

Gimenez is going nowhere with that contract. As a result, I agree with you that you cannot carry both Noodle Arm Varsho just because he can make some good catches, and Gimenez also in the bottom of the order with their below average hitting numbers over the course of the 2025 season (looking at BA, SLG, OPS, On base, etc). So, go ahead and tender Varsho and then ship off to some bottom feeder that can use a Number 9 hitter who can make defensive catches in the outfield.

Use that 10 million or so that you save on Varsho by targeting a real middle of the order Left Handed Bat like Bellinger who is willing to play Centre Field again. I would prefer Tucker, but he wants to play RF and is looking at 400 million or so. So, Tucker is a pipe dream when you already have foolishly committed a long-term deal to Santander last year (which you never should have to an overrated guy like him).

[Mr Swagtastic]

Arizona looks like they are sellers. Trying to find a taker for Gurriel Jr and Eduardo Rodriguez it's going to be a tough task. E-Rod is due $20,$21 and $23 million in his next three years then a $8 million buyout I believe. Lourdis' deal isn't horrid but I can't see them easily getting cap relief.

With that said if Bichette is gone do you open up the prospect pool and make a push for Marte? He would fit very well as a 1/2/3/4/5 basically anywhere you want to put him with Vladdy and Barger

[Madvillainy2004]

such a shame that Varsho thread got locked and now have to resort to sharing this incredible (post-World Series) article — written by someone who actually knows what the hell they’re talking about — in the “most applicable” thread which seems to be this one.

Daulton Varsho Was Everywhere

Out of the 49 catches Varsho made in the outfield, 15 of them resulted in him putting one or both feet on the warning track. That’s 15 times the batter got all or most of the ball, leaving open the non-trivial possibility that when the broadcast changed camera angles, we were going to watch the ball fly into the seats. And instead of getting the most impactful play possible, what we got was Varsho trotting over to retire the batter.

This happened to the Dodgers a lot. Freddie Freeman hit 18 fly balls across three rounds of the playoffs. Two of them left the yard, two others went for doubles, and Varsho caught nine of the other 14. Five of those nine, Varsho caught on the warning track.

During the marathon Game 3, that legendary, definitive game, Varsho tracked down a warning track fly ball that came off the bat at 100 mph or more four innings in a row. Listen to the crowd in these videos. He got Freeman to end the 13th with a runner on second.

an absolute masterclass in center field all october long. probably the sole reason that we didn’t lose game 3 sooner and a huge reason why we even went on the run we did. stallion of a defender in the outfield and such a treat to watch out there.

If Guerrero dominated the playoffs by force of will, to an extent that’s usually only possible in basketball, Varsho was the Draymond Green to Guerrero’s Steph Curry. With less nut-punching. He was there to collect every stray ball, to fight for every rebound, to make every high-leverage defensive play. Five years from now, we probably will have forgotten all about Varsho’s contributions to the Blue Jays’ excruciating near-miss. But we can remember them for now.

A clear priority this offseason should be extending our Draymond. He needs to be a part of the long-term core.

Lmao no we need Cody Bellinger for a real middle of the order bat thats a playoff performer (career .660 OPS in the playoffs)

[Mehar]

such a shame that Varsho thread got locked and now have to resort to sharing this incredible (post-World Series) article — written by someone who actually knows what the hell they’re talking about — in the “most applicable” thread which seems to be this one.

Daulton Varsho Was Everywhere



an absolute masterclass in center field all october long. probably the sole reason that we didn’t lose game 3 sooner and a huge reason why we even went on the run we did. stallion of a defender in the outfield and such a treat to watch out there.

If Guerrero dominated the playoffs by force of will, to an extent that’s usually only possible in basketball, Varsho was the Draymond Green to Guerrero’s Steph Curry. With less nut-punching. He was there to collect every stray ball, to fight for every rebound, to make every high-leverage defensive play. Five years from now, we probably will have forgotten all about Varsho’s contributions to the Blue Jays’ excruciating near-miss. But we can remember them for now.

A clear priority this offseason should be extending our Draymond. He needs to be a part of the long-term core.

Lmao no we need Cody Bellinger for a real middle of the order bat thats a playoff performer (career .660 OPS in the playoffs)

Look at how banged up Bellinger was in 2021 and 2022 with the Dodgers, and the multiple injuries he suffered (coming from off-season shoulder surgery, fractured leg, two rib injuries, etc.,) and no wonder his numbers for both years and in the playoffs were terrible. He himself had stated he never felt himself and healthy those years. Then he was non-tendered by the Dodgers after 2022. His numbers before the injuries tell a different story. He was the 2018 NLCS MVP in the Playoffs, and arguably one of the best players in baseball in 2019 (voted NL MVP that year).

Being healthy these past three years again, he is again coming off a very good year in New York (5.1 WAR, .813 OPS). Bellinger will not cost a draft pick, will be over two hundred million cheaper than Tucker, and is the best free agent CF option out there to replace the horrific bat and arm of Noodle Arm Varsho. He can actually play all three outfield positions. He will only cost money and not prospects in a trade also. He is former Gold Glove winner, and a very good defender also, with a strong outfield arm. That is why I hope the Jays target him.

[JaysRule25]

I just came in here to say we need to move on from Varsho. Can’t carry him and Jimenez in the lineup at the same time. Given Jimenez’ extemely expensive contract, I doubt we’d find suitors for him. So I’d like us to tender Varsho and then ship him off somewhere else so he can whiff away all he wants.

Rest of the team I’m cool with.

I absolutely agree with you. Ideally, I would be fine if Varsho was the Number 9 hitter for this team next year at a 1 year deal for 10 million in a Kevin Kiermaier role. However, we already have a Number 9 hitter like Gimenez getting paid 86.5 million the next 4 years (15 million next year, 23 million the next three years after that) and 2.5 million buyout in Year 5.

Gimenez is going nowhere with that contract. As a result, I agree with you that you cannot carry both Noodle Arm Varsho just because he can make some good catches, and Gimenez also in the bottom of the order with their below average hitting numbers over the course of the 2025 season (looking at BA, SLG, OPS, On base, etc). So, go ahead and tender Varsho and then ship off to some bottom feeder that can use a Number 9 hitter who can make defensive catches in the outfield.

Use that 10 million or so that you save on Varsho by targeting a real middle of the order Left Handed Bat like Bellinger who is willing to play Centre Field again. I would prefer Tucker, but he wants to play RF and is looking at 400 million or so. So, Tucker is a pipe dream when you already have foolishly committed a long-term deal to Santander last year (which you never should have to an overrated guy like him).

Let's not call Varsho "Noodle Arm" just yet. Varsho had a good arm before last season. He had shoulder surgery, which does sap throwing strength. But usually with proper rehab and conditioning you can get it back. I'm hoping Varsho's arm is at least average or better next season.

[Asianiac_24]

Varsho had a terrible World Series on the plate, but let’s not get our emotions in the way here. We absolutely bring him back, even as a trade chip in the event we get Bellinger. Having Giminez and Varsho as our 8/9 hitters at the two most important defensive positions is a trade off I’m sure the jays would take.

I wouldn’t want Tucker at 400 mil. Bellinger/Bregman/Bo would be much cheaper to obtain. Would rather use the delta to shore up the BP

[Mehar]

Varsho had a terrible World Series on the plate, but let’s not get our emotions in the way here. We absolutely bring him back, even as a trade chip in the event we get Bellinger. Having Giminez and Varsho as our 8/9 hitters at the two most important defensive positions is a trade off I’m sure the jays would take.

I wouldn’t want Tucker at 400 mil. Bellinger/Bregman/Bo would be much cheaper to obtain. Would rather use the delta to shore up the BP

I might be in the minority, but to me Tucker screams as an overrated guy that should not be mentioned as a 'Franchise Game Changer' deserving over 400 million. He also had injury issues last year, and in 2024 when he was out 79 games with a fracture. Tucker is a good player, do not get me wrong. However, not a franchise player to me in the 40 million range like what he is seeking and will get from someone. Just like how I felt last off-season that Santander was an overrated player who the Jays should have avoided like a plague. However, the Jays got turned down by a couple of guys and were desperate to make a splash, and foolishly committed the RF position to a slow, high strike out, low batting average player like Santander. Bellinger had a Higher WAR, Higher BA, Home Runs, similar OPS and more RBI's than Tucker in 2025 (even if he played a few more games).

I know batting behind Judge helped with those numbers, but Bellinger's numbers were similar to the ones he had two years ago with the Cubs when he had a fantastic year (except that he hit .307 with the Cubs that year). Bellinger would definitely be my target, along with another quality starting pitcher, and Closer. Jeff Hoffman should not be the Closer in 2026. His salary is around what Chad Green was making this year, so Hoffman to me should return as a 7th/8th Inning guy like he was in Philadelphia. Some pitchers are not meant to be full-time Closers, and Hoffman is one of them. He was excellent as a Setup Man next to Carlos Estevez. So, Hoffman can return as a Setup Guy next year with the Jays. I would throw a Truck Load of money at Robert Suarez and do what it takes to bring him here. He has been a consistent and durable pitcher the couple of years. I would also say Edwin Diaz, but he opted out and is seeking and will likely get around 100 million over 5 years or so, and I rather just go the Suarez route.

[brwnman]

such a shame that Varsho thread got locked and now have to resort to sharing this incredible (post-World Series) article — written by someone who actually knows what the hell they’re talking about — in the “most applicable” thread which seems to be this one.

Daulton Varsho Was Everywhere

Out of the 49 catches Varsho made in the outfield, 15 of them resulted in him putting one or both feet on the warning track. That’s 15 times the batter got all or most of the ball, leaving open the non-trivial possibility that when the broadcast changed camera angles, we were going to watch the ball fly into the seats. And instead of getting the most impactful play possible, what we got was Varsho trotting over to retire the batter.

This happened to the Dodgers a lot. Freddie Freeman hit 18 fly balls across three rounds of the playoffs. Two of them left the yard, two others went for doubles, and Varsho caught nine of the other 14. Five of those nine, Varsho caught on the warning track.

During the marathon Game 3, that legendary, definitive game, Varsho tracked down a warning track fly ball that came off the bat at 100 mph or more four innings in a row. Listen to the crowd in these videos. He got Freeman to end the 13th with a runner on second.

an absolute masterclass in center field all october long. probably the sole reason that we didn’t lose game 3 sooner and a huge reason why we even went on the run we did. stallion of a defender in the outfield and such a treat to watch out there.

Read on Twitter

Absolute Masterclass in CF all October long

Varsho also took the wrong route on that 8th inning double on that double from Ohtani in Game 6 - should have been caught.


That fangraphs excerpt is written like a fan-fic novel. Trying to romanticize pretty normal plays in CF into something more - I guess they have to get paid somehow. There were 2 above average plays made in the series by Varsho. and 3 plays that should have been made, but weren't.

stallion of a defender in the outfield and such a treat to watch out there.

Pause.

The facts remain, Varsho cost the Jays the WS and had very little to nothing to do with the Jays getting as far as they did. Without him, Jays win the Seattle series earlier and win the World Series. Their record in the regular season with or without him, nearly identical and that's only if you're counting games where Varsho came in as a late game sub, otherwise, Jays were better without him on the field by a huge margin.

With that said, we should at least try and stay on topic instead of derailing every thread with meaningless articles. If you really think it's worthwhile sharing, start a new thread.

[GameChannel]

such a shame that Varsho thread got locked and now have to resort to sharing this incredible (post-World Series) article — written by someone who actually knows what the hell they’re talking about — in the “most applicable” thread which seems to be this one.

Daulton Varsho Was Everywhere



an absolute masterclass in center field all october long. probably the sole reason that we didn’t lose game 3 sooner and a huge reason why we even went on the run we did. stallion of a defender in the outfield and such a treat to watch out there.

If Guerrero dominated the playoffs by force of will, to an extent that’s usually only possible in basketball, Varsho was the Draymond Green to Guerrero’s Steph Curry. With less nut-punching. He was there to collect every stray ball, to fight for every rebound, to make every high-leverage defensive play. Five years from now, we probably will have forgotten all about Varsho’s contributions to the Blue Jays’ excruciating near-miss. But we can remember them for now.

A clear priority this offseason should be extending our Draymond. He needs to be a part of the long-term core.

Lmao no we need Cody Bellinger for a real middle of the order bat thats a playoff performer (career .660 OPS in the playoffs)

Yeah I don’t want any part of Bellinger either. Just like I don’t want to see Varsho in a Jays uniform again. Unfortunately, looks like we are stuck with him for at least another year.

[Madvillainy2004]

I just came in here to say we need to move on from Varsho. Can’t carry him and Jimenez in the lineup at the same time. Given Jimenez’ extemely expensive contract, I doubt we’d find suitors for him. So I’d like us to tender Varsho and then ship him off somewhere else so he can whiff away all he wants.

Rest of the team I’m cool with.

I absolutely agree with you. Ideally, I would be fine if Varsho was the Number 9 hitter for this team next year at a 1 year deal for 10 million in a Kevin Kiermaier role. However, we already have a Number 9 hitter like Gimenez getting paid 86.5 million the next 4 years (15 million next year, 23 million the next three years after that) and 2.5 million buyout in Year 5.

Gimenez is going nowhere with that contract. As a result, I agree with you that you cannot carry both Noodle Arm Varsho just because he can make some good catches, and Gimenez also in the bottom of the order with their below average hitting numbers over the course of the 2025 season (looking at BA, SLG, OPS, On base, etc). So, go ahead and tender Varsho and then ship off to some bottom feeder that can use a Number 9 hitter who can make defensive catches in the outfield.

Use that 10 million or so that you save on Varsho by targeting a real middle of the order Left Handed Bat like Bellinger who is willing to play Centre Field again. I would prefer Tucker, but he wants to play RF and is looking at 400 million or so. So, Tucker is a pipe dream when you already have foolishly committed a long-term deal to Santander last year (which you never should have to an overrated guy like him).

Let's not call Varsho "Noodle Arm" just yet. Varsho had a good arm before last season. He had shoulder surgery, which does sap throwing strength. But usually with proper rehab and conditioning you can get it back. I'm hoping Varsho's arm is at least average or better next season.

I do like this idea where we cant have both Varsho and Gimenez when we had them, IKF, and Lukes and were 2 outs away from winning the world series and had an all time playoff offense with both them in the lineup lol

[Madvillainy2004]

Varsho had a terrible World Series on the plate, but let’s not get our emotions in the way here. We absolutely bring him back, even as a trade chip in the event we get Bellinger. Having Giminez and Varsho as our 8/9 hitters at the two most important defensive positions is a trade off I’m sure the jays would take.

I wouldn’t want Tucker at 400 mil. Bellinger/Bregman/Bo would be much cheaper to obtain. Would rather use the delta to shore up the BP

People are being silly lol whether we get Bader/Cody/Tucker it doesnt matter its to add to the lineup. They had one of the best playoff offense ever with him, and plenty of teams have won championships with defense first guys at SS/CF (the Dodgers just did actually lol). Even without an arm he was still was in the 95th percentile for range.

[Madvillainy2004]

such a shame that Varsho thread got locked and now have to resort to sharing this incredible (post-World Series) article — written by someone who actually knows what the hell they’re talking about — in the “most applicable” thread which seems to be this one.

Daulton Varsho Was Everywhere

Out of the 49 catches Varsho made in the outfield, 15 of them resulted in him putting one or both feet on the warning track. That’s 15 times the batter got all or most of the ball, leaving open the non-trivial possibility that when the broadcast changed camera angles, we were going to watch the ball fly into the seats. And instead of getting the most impactful play possible, what we got was Varsho trotting over to retire the batter.

This happened to the Dodgers a lot. Freddie Freeman hit 18 fly balls across three rounds of the playoffs. Two of them left the yard, two others went for doubles, and Varsho caught nine of the other 14. Five of those nine, Varsho caught on the warning track.

During the marathon Game 3, that legendary, definitive game, Varsho tracked down a warning track fly ball that came off the bat at 100 mph or more four innings in a row. Listen to the crowd in these videos. He got Freeman to end the 13th with a runner on second.

an absolute masterclass in center field all october long. probably the sole reason that we didn’t lose game 3 sooner and a huge reason why we even went on the run we did. stallion of a defender in the outfield and such a treat to watch out there.

Read on Twitter

Absolute Masterclass in CF all October long

Varsho also took the wrong route on that 8th inning double on that double from Ohtani in Game 6 - should have been caught.


That fangraphs excerpt is written like a fan-fic novel. Trying to romanticize pretty normal plays in CF into something more - I guess they have to get paid somehow. There were 2 above average plays made in the series by Varsho. and 3 plays that should have been made, but weren't.

stallion of a defender in the outfield and such a treat to watch out there.

Pause.

The facts remain, Varsho cost the Jays the WS and had very little to nothing to do with the Jays getting as far as they did. Without him, Jays win the Seattle series earlier and win the World Series. Their record in the regular season with or without him, nearly identical and that's only if you're counting games where Varsho came in as a late game sub, otherwise, Jays were better without him on the field by a huge margin.

With that said, we should at least try and stay on topic instead of derailing every thread with meaningless articles. If you really think it's worthwhile sharing, start a new thread.

There is no 100+ mph ball that goes 376 (with an xBA of .660) that "shouldve been caught" lmao it wouldve been a HR in like 5 parks.

[Mehar]

I just came in here to say we need to move on from Varsho. Can’t carry him and Jimenez in the lineup at the same time. Given Jimenez’ extemely expensive contract, I doubt we’d find suitors for him. So I’d like us to tender Varsho and then ship him off somewhere else so he can whiff away all he wants.

Rest of the team I’m cool with.

I absolutely agree with you. Ideally, I would be fine if Varsho was the Number 9 hitter for this team next year at a 1 year deal for 10 million in a Kevin Kiermaier role. However, we already have a Number 9 hitter like Gimenez getting paid 86.5 million the next 4 years (15 million next year, 23 million the next three years after that) and 2.5 million buyout in Year 5.

Gimenez is going nowhere with that contract. As a result, I agree with you that you cannot carry both Noodle Arm Varsho just because he can make some good catches, and Gimenez also in the bottom of the order with their below average hitting numbers over the course of the 2025 season (looking at BA, SLG, OPS, On base, etc). So, go ahead and tender Varsho and then ship off to some bottom feeder that can use a Number 9 hitter who can make defensive catches in the outfield.

Use that 10 million or so that you save on Varsho by targeting a real middle of the order Left Handed Bat like Bellinger who is willing to play Centre Field again. I would prefer Tucker, but he wants to play RF and is looking at 400 million or so. So, Tucker is a pipe dream when you already have foolishly committed a long-term deal to Santander last year (which you never should have to an overrated guy like him).

Let's not call Varsho "Noodle Arm" just yet. Varsho had a good arm before last season. He had shoulder surgery, which does sap throwing strength. But usually with proper rehab and conditioning you can get it back. I'm hoping Varsho's arm is at least average or better next season.

With all due respect to you as the moderator JaysRule25, I am not sure why the Varsho thread was locked? People were having spirited discussions on both sides. It is the best thread going, and now the Varsho talk has derailed this off-season thread.

Please unlock that thread. I believe everyone can debate in a civilized manner. No need for personal insults. We all can debate in a civilized manner since we know the thread will be locked otherwise. You said no more baiting and personal insults, and those rules will be followed by everyone. Thanks in advance.

[brwnman]

such a shame that Varsho thread got locked and now have to resort to sharing this incredible (post-World Series) article — written by someone who actually knows what the hell they’re talking about — in the “most applicable” thread which seems to be this one.

Daulton Varsho Was Everywhere



an absolute masterclass in center field all october long. probably the sole reason that we didn’t lose game 3 sooner and a huge reason why we even went on the run we did. stallion of a defender in the outfield and such a treat to watch out there.

Read on Twitter

Absolute Masterclass in CF all October long

Varsho also took the wrong route on that 8th inning double on that double from Ohtani in Game 6 - should have been caught.


That fangraphs excerpt is written like a fan-fic novel. Trying to romanticize pretty normal plays in CF into something more - I guess they have to get paid somehow. There were 2 above average plays made in the series by Varsho. and 3 plays that should have been made, but weren't.

stallion of a defender in the outfield and such a treat to watch out there.

Pause.

The facts remain, Varsho cost the Jays the WS and had very little to nothing to do with the Jays getting as far as they did. Without him, Jays win the Seattle series earlier and win the World Series. Their record in the regular season with or without him, nearly identical and that's only if you're counting games where Varsho came in as a late game sub, otherwise, Jays were better without him on the field by a huge margin.

With that said, we should at least try and stay on topic instead of derailing every thread with meaningless articles. If you really think it's worthwhile sharing, start a new thread.

There is no 100+ mph ball that goes 376 (with an xBA of .660) that "shouldve been caught" lmao it wouldve been a HR in like 5 parks.

xBA =/= catch probability. For all his faults on the offensive side, Varsho is generally one of the best at getting reads on the ball and taking an efficient route to the ball. He wasn't in the playoffs and he wasn't on that play.

Let me give you three routine plays with 100+mph that go at least 376 ft just in one game alone. The homerun in 5 parks is irrelevant since we're not playing in those parks.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=052e0143-4c7e-333c-9e25-72b50a46bd85

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=be967437-7987-3ea9-a503-f1c2b9fd0a8e

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=b1abb68c-305c-32b9-a517-45fbad9e00c0

These are the plays that the author (Baumann) was referencing in his articles... routine plays. They just look more impressive if you're not actually watching the game because of "xBA" and "100+ mph" - context was severely lacking on those plays.

[polo007]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Parataxis]

Makes sense to me, even if it is a bit disappointing.

There was always the sense that he was brought in to help guide Schneider (and to step in if he had faltered badly). Now with some years under him (and, presumably, a safer job) Donnie probably wants to look for a top role again.

Read on Twitter

[JaysRule25]

I absolutely agree with you. Ideally, I would be fine if Varsho was the Number 9 hitter for this team next year at a 1 year deal for 10 million in a Kevin Kiermaier role. However, we already have a Number 9 hitter like Gimenez getting paid 86.5 million the next 4 years (15 million next year, 23 million the next three years after that) and 2.5 million buyout in Year 5.

Gimenez is going nowhere with that contract. As a result, I agree with you that you cannot carry both Noodle Arm Varsho just because he can make some good catches, and Gimenez also in the bottom of the order with their below average hitting numbers over the course of the 2025 season (looking at BA, SLG, OPS, On base, etc). So, go ahead and tender Varsho and then ship off to some bottom feeder that can use a Number 9 hitter who can make defensive catches in the outfield.

Use that 10 million or so that you save on Varsho by targeting a real middle of the order Left Handed Bat like Bellinger who is willing to play Centre Field again. I would prefer Tucker, but he wants to play RF and is looking at 400 million or so. So, Tucker is a pipe dream when you already have foolishly committed a long-term deal to Santander last year (which you never should have to an overrated guy like him).

Let's not call Varsho "Noodle Arm" just yet. Varsho had a good arm before last season. He had shoulder surgery, which does sap throwing strength. But usually with proper rehab and conditioning you can get it back. I'm hoping Varsho's arm is at least average or better next season.

With all due respect to you as the moderator JaysRule25, I am not sure why the Varsho thread was locked? People were having spirited discussions on both sides. It is the best thread going, and now the Varsho talk has derailed this off-season thread.

Please unlock that thread. I believe everyone can debate in a civilized manner. No need for personal insults. We all can debate in a civilized manner since we know the thread will be locked otherwise. You said no more baiting and personal insults, and those rules will be followed by everyone. Thanks in advance.

It was locked because it devolved into a bunch of name calling and personal attacks, despite warnings. And had multiple reported posts over the past few days. Plus everything that needed to be said about Varsho has been said, it's just people repeating talking points. My advice would be to take it easy on the Varsho stuff for now and let's wait till a bit till everyone cools off.

[GameChannel]

Let's not call Varsho "Noodle Arm" just yet. Varsho had a good arm before last season. He had shoulder surgery, which does sap throwing strength. But usually with proper rehab and conditioning you can get it back. I'm hoping Varsho's arm is at least average or better next season.

With all due respect to you as the moderator JaysRule25, I am not sure why the Varsho thread was locked? People were having spirited discussions on both sides. It is the best thread going, and now the Varsho talk has derailed this off-season thread.

Please unlock that thread. I believe everyone can debate in a civilized manner. No need for personal insults. We all can debate in a civilized manner since we know the thread will be locked otherwise. You said no more baiting and personal insults, and those rules will be followed by everyone. Thanks in advance.

It was locked because it devolved into a bunch of name calling and personal attacks, despite warnings. And had multiple reported posts over the past few days. Plus everything that needed to be said about Varsho has been said, it's just people repeating talking points. My advice would be to take it easy on the Varsho stuff for now and let's wait till a bit till everyone cools off.

I agree.

But since this is the off season thread, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to discuss possible options to replace Varsho’s anemic bat in the lineup, if possible.

[Madvillainy2004]

Read on Twitter

Absolute Masterclass in CF all October long

Varsho also took the wrong route on that 8th inning double on that double from Ohtani in Game 6 - should have been caught.


That fangraphs excerpt is written like a fan-fic novel. Trying to romanticize pretty normal plays in CF into something more - I guess they have to get paid somehow. There were 2 above average plays made in the series by Varsho. and 3 plays that should have been made, but weren't.



Pause.

The facts remain, Varsho cost the Jays the WS and had very little to nothing to do with the Jays getting as far as they did. Without him, Jays win the Seattle series earlier and win the World Series. Their record in the regular season with or without him, nearly identical and that's only if you're counting games where Varsho came in as a late game sub, otherwise, Jays were better without him on the field by a huge margin.

With that said, we should at least try and stay on topic instead of derailing every thread with meaningless articles. If you really think it's worthwhile sharing, start a new thread.

There is no 100+ mph ball that goes 376 (with an xBA of .660) that "shouldve been caught" lmao it wouldve been a HR in like 5 parks.

xBA =/= catch probability. For all his faults on the offensive side, Varsho is generally one of the best at getting reads on the ball and taking an efficient route to the ball. He wasn't in the playoffs and he wasn't on that play.

Let me give you three routine plays with 100+mph that go at least 376 ft just in one game alone. The homerun in 5 parks is irrelevant since we're not playing in those parks.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=052e0143-4c7e-333c-9e25-72b50a46bd85

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=be967437-7987-3ea9-a503-f1c2b9fd0a8e

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=b1abb68c-305c-32b9-a517-45fbad9e00c0

These are the plays that the author (Baumann) was referencing in his articles... routine plays. They just look more impressive if you're not actually watching the game because of "xBA" and "100+ mph" - context was severely lacking on those plays.

What was the catch probability of that Ohtani play then? Lol because that ball ended up hitting the wall in the gap. Im sorry if Varsho isnt coming close to that ball nobody is. Definitely wasnt a routine play ill tell you that.