Varsho/Moreno Discussion Thread

[Fairview4Life]

Add 2 more hits for Carroll, DBacks chose well.

viewforum.php?f=95

Have fun bud. Seems like a busy place.

[brwnman]

Add 2 more hits for Carroll, DBacks chose well.

viewforum.php?f=95

Have fun bud. Seems like a busy place.

Having way more fun here, bud. Just following this off-topic thread of talking about players that have nothing to do with the trade, interchanging fWAR/bWAR on a player specific basis without understanding how either works by position and of course, small sample size when nothing else works.

Denzel Clarke, best defensive CF in the game, maybe ever. See how easy it is to find defense-first CF from the minors? Literally, dozens of them. On pace for 77 OAA. And as we all know, SSS means everything.

And if we really want to be back talking about the trade:

Hits in 2025:
Varsho - 19
Moreno + LGJ - 108

Yep, D'Backs keep winning the trade. 3 years in, D'Backs have won the trade every single year. I guess, we'll have to wait for 2026 when this trade can finally be a W for Toronto.

[s e n s i]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

[brwnman]

Most Valuable Outfielder (by fWAR)
#3 Corbin Carroll

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

Can't beat this.

[Madvillainy2004]

Add 2 more hits for Carroll, DBacks chose well.

viewforum.php?f=95

Have fun bud. Seems like a busy place.

Having way more fun here, bud. Just following this off-topic thread of talking about players that have nothing to do with the trade, interchanging fWAR/bWAR on a player specific basis without understanding how either works by position and of course, small sample size when nothing else works.

Denzel Clarke, best defensive CF in the game, maybe ever. See how easy it is to find defense-first CF from the minors? Literally, dozens of them. On pace for 77 OAA. And as we all know, SSS means everything.

And if we really want to be back talking about the trade:

Hits in 2025:
Varsho - 19
Moreno + LGJ - 108

Yep, D'Backs keep winning the trade. 3 years in, D'Backs have won the trade every single year. I guess, we'll have to wait for 2026 when this trade can finally be a W for Toronto.

Why are we counting Gurriell after his first season there anyways lmao part of the reason he was in the trade was because he was an expiring contact lol

[brwnman]

viewforum.php?f=95

Have fun bud. Seems like a busy place.

Having way more fun here, bud. Just following this off-topic thread of talking about players that have nothing to do with the trade, interchanging fWAR/bWAR on a player specific basis without understanding how either works by position and of course, small sample size when nothing else works.

Denzel Clarke, best defensive CF in the game, maybe ever. See how easy it is to find defense-first CF from the minors? Literally, dozens of them. On pace for 77 OAA. And as we all know, SSS means everything.

And if we really want to be back talking about the trade:

Hits in 2025:
Varsho - 19
Moreno + LGJ - 108

Yep, D'Backs keep winning the trade. 3 years in, D'Backs have won the trade every single year. I guess, we'll have to wait for 2026 when this trade can finally be a W for Toronto.

Why are we counting Gurriell after his first season there anyways lmao part of the reason he was in the trade was because he was an expiring contact lol

What are we talking about Kirk? Just cause at this point.

[Randle McMurphy]

Love the deal. Not sure the Jays will win out on pure value a decade down the road, but I also don't particularly care about that (nor should they given the situation they're in). They had a surplus of quality major league catchers and going into the 2023 season with all three of them would have been a major waste of resources for a team that needs to contend and win. In making this trade, they've also made the choice to go with Kirk long-term at the position over Moreno (and after the year Kirk had, it's hard not to be a believer in him as one of the best Cs in baseball for the foreseeable future).

Of course, I suspect they would have wanted to trade Jansen the most, but likely found that he wasn't garnering the interest or the impact player needed to move a player of Jansen's quality (he's arguably a top 5 catcher in the game right now himself). Instead, they've moved Moreno (a worse player than either Kirk or Jansen at the moment) for a guy who is one of the best outfield defenders in baseball under control for cheap during our core's window (Vlad/Bo/Kirk/Springer/Manoah/Gausman). Varsho will significantly improve this team over the next few years even if he never takes a further leap with the bat. Outside of shortstop, the Jays will have an elite defensive team at virtually every position next season. A far cry from the absolute clown show they've thrown out there over the past few years.

It's interesting that it feels like the Jays have made it a goal to change this team's identity and culture heading into 2023 with the move outs of Lourdes and Teo. Sure, they won 90 games last year but there have been times (especially during the Montoyo era) where this didn't feel like a serious baseball team. That may be changing now.

[brwnman]

Having way more fun here, bud. Just following this off-topic thread of talking about players that have nothing to do with the trade, interchanging fWAR/bWAR on a player specific basis without understanding how either works by position and of course, small sample size when nothing else works.

Denzel Clarke, best defensive CF in the game, maybe ever. See how easy it is to find defense-first CF from the minors? Literally, dozens of them. On pace for 77 OAA. And as we all know, SSS means everything.

And if we really want to be back talking about the trade:

Hits in 2025:
Varsho - 19
Moreno + LGJ - 108

Yep, D'Backs keep winning the trade. 3 years in, D'Backs have won the trade every single year. I guess, we'll have to wait for 2026 when this trade can finally be a W for Toronto.

Why are we counting Gurriell after his first season there anyways lmao part of the reason he was in the trade was because he was an expiring contact lol

What are we talking about Kirk? Just cause at this point.[/quote]

[Mehar]

Just throwing my perspective out there- it makes sense to look at Gurriel's contributions after Year 1 of the trade, because he himself said that he would never had signed as a free agent in Arizona if he was not traded there in the first place in the Varsho deal. He even took less guaranteed money to stay in Arizona than what a couple of other teams were offering him after he had his all-star 2023 year. He and his family loved living in Arizona, and the front office assured Gurriel after he was acquired there that he was in the club's long-term plans and not just an one year rental.

Gurriel himself said that there was an understanding from his agent and the Arizona front office that he was going to remain in Arizona long-term after he was acquired, and even throughout the 2023 season. So, just because he had an expiring contract it does not mean you ignore Gurriel after Year 1 of the deal. So, Gurriel was an above average hitter in both 2023 and 2024, and much better offensively than what Varsho produced in Toronto for the past two year. Defensively, he was very good also (leading all National League Left Fielders in Defensive Runs Saved in 2023). So, logically speaking it is not wrong to still view this as a 2 for 1 trade (Varsho for both Gurriel and Moreno).

[brwnman]

Judge with #25. Wonder what his savant page looks like.

Yankees chose well, cashman is a genius.

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

[brwnman]

"All of these people who talked about Daulton Varsho like he was the second coming of Christ to discount how good Moreno is should be publicly shamed until 2050."

[Parataxis]

Sometimes, when I think that the world has gone crazy, I like to come to this thread to remind myself just how completely unhinged everything can be, and it makes me feel better that the rest of the world hasn't quite reached this point yet.

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

Best two-way catcher in the game.

[Mehar]

Read on Twitter

Best two-way catcher in the game.

As much as Kirk has been exceptional offensively, Cal Raleigh is leading MLB in Home Runs (26 versus 5 for Kirk) and his Power numbers (OPS, SLG) are incredible so far. Still a long way to go for the rest of the year, but Cal Raleigh is definitely the best Catcher in the Game right now. Kirk with the season he has had so far, definitely deserves to go to the All-Star Game representing the American League as a Reserve Player. Kirk has been fantastic offensively compared to the guy we saw the past two years, and even during the first month of this season.