General Blue Jays Thread

[Davey0]

Apparently, Don Mattingly is "deep in talks to join Blue Jays’ coaching staff".

If so he'd have to be a Bench Coach. Someone to guide Schneider? Or replace him if he doesn't do good?

[billy_hoyle]

Maybe I'm completely out of touch, but a 1/20 for Bellinger feels absurd. That's not 'prove it' money, that's established star money.

If he doesn't produce, that leaves a big hole, and if he does, he can walk after the one season.

My thoughts exactly.

Prove it money would be like $8m. If he wants $20m, it better be performance based. ****, give him $30m if he hits certain targets (MVP votes, gold glove, ops+, games played etc.). I'm not sure what you can put in the contract, as I'm sure there will be massive push back from the PA and agent.

[Schad]

Prove-it money isn't $8m anymore, unless you have an awful lot to prove. Remember that Robbie Ray got $8m in prove-it money, and he was coming an absolutely atrocious season where he walked nearly a batter an inning, preceded by two middling ones, and even prior to that he wasn't anything special.

Bellinger actually had value last year. His fWAR was that of a slightly-below-average major league starter by virtue of his defense, so he has less proving-of-it than someone like Ray did. $20m is more than you'd want to pay for the value he brought in 2022, but not massively so, and he's still only two years removed from being an above-average hitter (and three years removed from being one of the best hitters in baseball).

I'm not at all surprised that a team would pay in the $20m range on a one year deal because, well, that's exactly what I suggested it'd take a few days before that article, heh. And also because it's broadly in line with what you'd expect from a player with a reasonably high floor (if he's merely a bad hitter, he's still very useful owing to his defense...just can't be Zimmer-level), and the ceiling of a former MVP. With no downside risk on long-term money, and still with QO rights at the end of the year.

[wamco]

If someone was interested in him at 1/18, why not offer something in a trade to get him?

I’d rather do kiermeirer for 1/6 than bellinger for 1/18.

I think we get him though hence Atkins talk after teo trade about showing free agents where they fit into the puzzle (playing time).

I also think Pearson will be traded hence moving the goalposts as to when he could return. Could have made a difference in game 2 of playoffs. Keep him in aaa, send him to AFL, showcase him in easy environments for him.

[wamco]

4D chess with signing mattingly. Now can go into HOF as a jay

[polo007]

Apparently, Don Mattingly is "deep in talks to join Blue Jays’ coaching staff".

If so he'd have to be a Bench Coach. Someone to guide Schneider? Or replace him if he doesn't do good?

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[polo007]

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[spykelee]

Apparently, Don Mattingly is "deep in talks to join Blue Jays’ coaching staff".

Doesn't look like he's shaved those sideburns yet but he was a good left handed bat 37 years ago

[wamco]

Whoever can get vlad to stop hitting the ball on the ground is a 3 win addition

[C Court]

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[polo007]

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[polo007]

With market poised to shift, Blue Jays ready to move - Sportsnet.ca

Their needs are clear: add a starting pitcher, maybe two; add a position player, probably an outfielder and ideally one who bats left-handed or switch hits; weigh offers on their three young catchers; and remain open to further upgrades to a bullpen that’s already added Erik Swanson (if the Blue Jays add here, it would likely be a high-end option with a subsequent trade possible to free up space).

In other words, there’s a lot for the Blue Jays to consider. But if nothing else, they’re prepared to spend with Atkins saying the team’s in “a great position” financially because of support from Rogers Communications Inc., which also owns Sportsnet.

While the Blue Jays are actively pursuing both trades and free-agent acquisitions, Atkins said there’s now “probably more” focus on free agency compared to trade talks. Of course one call can change that and there continues to be substantial interest in catchers Danny Jansen, Alejandro Kirk and Gabriel Moreno. On that front, the Blue Jays will have plenty of choices, and may be able to time things as they please.

Meanwhile, in free agency, players and agents can control the pace, which contributes to the slow-developing market so far.

"We're just looking for good players,” Atkins said. “It's not definitely a left-handed hitting right fielder to fill the role of Teoscar Hernandez. Would that work? Sure. Can we consider centre field as well? Sure. Can we think about it a completely different way, depending on the potential of trades? How do we think about run prevention? Is it just a starter? And then thinking about complementing the bullpen? Is it some other combination of run prevention? We have had a lot of dialogue about a lot of different permutations of how we can make our team better and see a lot of opportunities to do that and feel like our starting point is as good as any other teams in baseball.”

Granted, there’s still a lot of work ahead for a team whose splashiest off-season addition yet is bench coach Don Mattingly. In fact, the current edition of the Blue Jays is undeniably a lesser version of the team that finished the 2022 season, as Hernandez, Ross Stripling, Jackie Bradley Jr., Raimel Tapia and David Phelps have all departed. Many moves will be needed, and the same can be said for the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays.

At this point, being open-minded makes sense. Push for Verlander, as they did last winter. Explore the possibility of a deal with Cody Bellinger, who Mattingly knows from Los Angeles. Engage with Stripling and Andrew Heaney, with Brandon Nimmo and Kevin Kiermaier, with the Cardinals and the Guardians. See where it leads.

And sometime soon, it’ll be time to narrow the focus and shift from possibilities to concrete moves.

"We don't have the full picture painted on exactly how to do A, B and C to make our team better,” Atkins said. “But we do have a very clear understanding of where we could take our next strategic step.”

[WuTang_CMB]

Pick up some starting pitching and get your outfielder

[polo007]

With higher aims (and stakes), winter meetings are full of intrigue for Blue Jays - Sportsnet.ca

While the Blue Jays may certainly hold on to all three of Danny Jansen, Alejandro Kirk and Gabriel Moreno – and there’s a case to be made for that – reallocating some of that depth to fill other areas of needs offers a financial efficiency plugging holes in free agency alone will not.

Converting one of their backstops into an outfielder from, say, the St. Louis Cardinals (Dylan Carlson and Lars Nootbar are the best fits for them), Pittsburgh Pirates (Bryan Reynolds has requested a trade), Arizona Diamondbacks (Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported last month they’re open to a deal) or Minnesota Twins (Max Kepler) would allow them to address their need for a starter on the higher end of the open market (they’ve long liked Kodai Senga) and perhaps leave some money over for a reliever.

Conversely, converting a catcher into a rotation piece from, for instance, the Miami Marlins (they are believed to have discussed Pablo Lopez at the trade deadline when they acquired Anthony Bass and Zach Pop, as did the New York Yankees) or Cleveland Guardians (Zach Pleasac or Aaron Civale), would point them to free-agent outfield market, where Brandon Nimmo on the higher end and Cody Bellinger, in a Semien-esque pillow-deal, make total sense.

Whichever option they take locks them into a specific course, which is why their work seems to hinge on how the catching situation develops.

One thing the Blue Jays will need to monitor is the way the starting pitching market moves after the Texas Rangers signed Jacob deGrom to a stunning $185 million, five-year deal Friday. That contract bodes well for aces Carlos Rodon and Justin Verlander, the latter of which the Blue Jays pursued aggressively last winter and remain engaged with this one, although a deal for him may very well cut them off from other significant moves.

All of which makes this a winter meetings full of potential and intrigue for the Blue Jays.

[polo007]

Jays ready to swap and shop as baseball Winter Meetings get under way | Toronto Sun

The needs are clear for a team aiming to maximize the value of having stars such as Vlad Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette, George Springer, Alek Manoah, Kevin Gausman and others in the fold. Time is also ticking for a Jays team that two months ago was flatly swept away by the Seattle Mariners in two demoralizing wildcard round games.

The needs are certainly clear for the Jays. As Atkins acknowledged at the Toronto chapter of the Baseball Writers Association of America luncheon this past week, starting pitching tops the to-do list. The team simply can’t afford to head to spring training with a rotation of Manoah, Gausman, Jose Berrios (ideally an improved version) and question mark, question mark.

With the hole in right following the Hernandez trade, there will be a re-order of the Jays outfield and ideally a left-handed bat will be brought in to the righty heavy order.

Not all of it needs to get accomplished this week, of course, and likely won’t. But the sense from Atkins is that things could move quickly at the first Winter Meetings session since 2019.

“When you come together, there’s power to that because everyone is maximizing those windows with other teams,” Atkins said. “We spend the bulk of our time with representatives of other players and with other teams, that does push things to the forefront.”

The Jays have certainly been a team able to make a splash in recent off-seasons, a process the front office hopes to continue from its base here on the San Diego waterfront.

“We are in a great position,” said Atkins, who suggested improvements are likely to come more through free agency than via trade. “We understand from a business and practical standpoint what we think is ideal for the Toronto Blue Jays organization and (Rogers) is 100 per cent on board with that.”

“We have a mutual understanding of where that range is and if we need to go past that, I’m sure they’ll answer the phone when (team president Mark Shapiro) phones.”

How that money could be spent should start to unfold over the next three days.

“We don’t have the full picture painted on exactly how to do A, B and C to make our team better,” Atkins said. “But we do have a very clear understanding of where we could take our next strategic step.”

[Parataxis]

Fred McGriff has made the HoF! Took him a while, but I'm glad to see another Jay in there.

I'm looking forward to when the era committee looks at Steib.

[polo007]

'I'm thinking crazy busy': MLB execs expecting major moves at Winter Meetings - Sportsnet.ca

For what it’s worth, most predictions were bullish – though that optimism matters little until deals are completed. In the meantime, we can still attempt to make sense of near-misses, potential fits and ongoing discussions. On that front, the Toronto Blue Jays’ search for pitching bears watching as the meetings progress.

Before Kyle Gibson agreed to terms with the Baltimore Orioles on a one-year deal, the Blue Jays were involved until the end, according to one source. That's the second time the Blue Jays have pushed to land Gibson, as they also pursued him following the 2019 season only to see him sign in Texas.

This past season, the 35-year-old posted a 5.05 ERA with 144 strikeouts in 167.2 innings with the Philadelphia Phillies – serviceable yet far from overpowering. Of course, shopping for Gibson wouldn’t have cut the Blue Jays off from bigger possibilities, like some high-impact trade candidates or Justin Verlander, who reportedly agreed to terms with the Mets on a two-year, $86 million deal Monday (the Blue Jays have had interest in Verlander in each of the last two winters, but were generally viewed as a longshot to sign the three-time Cy Young winner this time).

Meanwhile, the Blue Jays don’t appear to be a leading suitor for Chris Bassitt at this stage. The right-hander’s likely the top pitcher available beyond Verlander and Carlos Rodon, but he’s seemingly positioned to land a four-year deal at a substantial AAV.

Plus, Bassitt declined a qualifying offer, complicating matters for interested teams. The Blue Jays, for instance, would have to surrender their second-highest 2023 draft pick and have their international signing bonus pool reduced by $500,000 – a significant penalty, though one that can be accounted for.

At the right price, any team would have interest in Bassitt, who posted a 3.42 ERA over the course of 30 starts for the New York Mets last year, and all it takes is one text message for things to change. So far, though, that particular fit doesn’t look to be emerging with the Blue Jays.

One way or another, the Blue Jays intend to add at least one pitcher to the rotation this winter. With Ross Stripling now a free agent, there’s a clear opening behind Kevin Gausman, Alek Manoah and Jose Berrios.

As expected, the Blue Jays have interest in retaining Stripling, but he’ll have plenty of options after posting a 3.01 ERA in 134.1 innings this past season. By way of context, Zach Eflin’s three-year, $40-million deal with the Tampa Bay Rays looks like a reasonable comp for Stripling considering Eflin posted a 4.04 ERA in 75.2 innings with comparable strikeout and walk numbers.