Varsho/Moreno/Kirk Discussion Thread

[Mehar]

Zero runs (driven in or scored) in a failed comeback bid by MVP Varsho and the best catcher in the game. 0-8, 2 Ks, 3 left on base.

Was there ever any doubt?

Varsho now 0 for his last 11. That is the pattern for this guy. Will hit a bunch of homers and drive in runs in a few games and in blowouts; but then can go on a long run without hitting for power and getting on base. Not a guy who you should throw ridiculous money to extend, especially being a Scott Boras client who will ask for the moon in negotiations.

[brwnman]

Update:

In games started by Varsho since his return against Major League caliber teams (non-Colorado games)

12 games:
.211 Avg, 6 RS, 2 HR, 4RBIs, 16 KS - Jay Record (4-8)

[Asianiac_24]

Varsho is a very valuable player no doubt, but how much would he cost and is he really necessary with Myles Straw on the field?

[Randle McMurphy]

Varsho is a very valuable player no doubt, but how much would he cost and is he really necessary with Myles Straw on the field?

Is keeping the team's most valuable player "necessary?"

I suppose it depends on how much you like winning games.

[GoRapstheoriginal]

Please f*cking lock this now JaysRule15. Do NOT make another f*cking thread either. It's 100 pages.

[Mehar]

Please f*cking lock this now JaysRule15. Do NOT make another f*cking thread either. It's 100 pages.

This page will go away if Varsho is not extended, traded, or leaves as a free agent after next year. So, thread needs to continue until that happens. Could be at the end of the 2026 season. Be patient (lol).

[linery88]

They have to stop batting Varsho 5th behind Bo.He has shown he is more comfortable,and more of a danergous surprise when batting 6-9

[Harry Palmer]

Again, he’s become just about my favourite Jay to watch, I find the games he plays more interesting (as in most sports I enjoy watching D more than most) but I do worry that Varsho’s style of offensive production (low volume, high yield) is the break in the chain or the leak in the hose on a team that imo is built on constant pressure. Barger is also clearly slumping, so that’s not helping either. I’m not arguing he’s not valuable, I just worry that this season is a bit of lightning caught in a bottle and worry his way of contributing kinda works against that.

Or it being lightning in a bottle, it was always doomed to self-correct.

Or it’s just a slump and we’ll be fine in a bit. Either way I’ve gotten way more juice out of this Jays season than I ever expected. But it’d be a shame to go out with a whimper.

[Parataxis]

Zero runs (driven in or scored) in a failed comeback bid by MVP Varsho and the best catcher in the game. 0-8, 2 Ks, 3 left on base.

Was there ever any doubt?

Wait until you see how the rest of the team (except Springer) did yesterday!

[Parataxis]

Please f*cking lock this now JaysRule15. Do NOT make another f*cking thread either. It's 100 pages.

This thread is the only thing stopping EVERY series thread from becoming a Varsho/Kirk debate.

[brwnman]

Zero runs (driven in or scored) in a failed comeback bid by MVP Varsho and the best catcher in the game. 0-8, 2 Ks, 3 left on base.

Was there ever any doubt?

Wait until you see how the rest of the team (except Springer) did yesterday!

Interesting you didn't have anything to say when a similar post was made earlier in favour of Kirk/Varsho.

But both Varsho/Kirk had opportunities with Bichette at 2B (and nobody out for Kirk and 1-out for Varsho). Then of course, both came up in the 9th for an opportunity to tie the game. At least the only other 0/4 hitter had the ump take the bat out of his hand - so he has that as an excuse.

[brwnman]

Please f*cking lock this now JaysRule15. Do NOT make another f*cking thread either. It's 100 pages.

This thread is the only thing stopping EVERY series thread from becoming a Varsho/Kirk debate.

Happens anyways. There's no real point of this thread anymore. It's been debated to death - it's only there to take subtle and sometimes, not so subtle shots at each other when the aforementioned player does something good/bad. There are no good faith arguments being made in this thread anymore.

[s e n s i]

mods, i agree. please lock this thread immediately. my banjo-hitting, texas leaguer merchant hero on another team isn’t exactly carving out his bust in cooperstown like i thought he would after that sterling 100 wRC+ performance in the 2023 playoffs, where he “carried” the diamondbacks to the World Series. lock it quick before varsho hits another home run and it continues to ruin my narrative and further expose my personal vendetta against certain quality players on the team i allegedly support.

[brwnman]

^ like I said. Didn't take very long to prove my point.

I think my favourite part of all this nonsensical bickering is that Varshonites bring up Moreno's hitting as a negative (wRC+) and Varsho's homeruns as a positive while conveniently ignoring that Moreno has been a better hitter overall than Varsho even with his lack of power. Really hammering home how god awful of a hitter he's been with the Jays. A slap hitter is better than Varsho - gotta hurt. But some are convinced Varho's going to get 45M AAV, because that's what he's worth

D'Back continue winning this trade 3 years in row. They chose well.

[Mehar]

Please do not lock this legendary thread. It will happen eventually when Varsho is traded in the off-season, or when he leaves after next year. Otherwise, game day and series threads will be ruined debating Mike Trout 2.0 Varsho. Too bad Moreno has been injured with a fractured hand the past two months (in rehab now and will return soon), so we could not evaluate how he would have performed this year with Kirk having a 2022 resurgence.

[Mehar]

^ like I said. Didn't take very long to prove my point.

I think my favourite part of all this nonsensical bickering is that Varshonites bring up Moreno's hitting as a negative (wRC+) and Varsho's homeruns as a positive while conveniently ignoring that Moreno has been a better hitter overall than Varsho even with his lack of power. Really hammering home how god awful of a hitter he's been with the Jays. A slap hitter is better than Varsho - gotta hurt. But some are convinced Varho's going to get 45M AAV, because that's what he's worth

D'Back continue winning this trade 3 years in row. They chose well.

The trade was Gurriel and Moreno for Varsho. It was a 2 for 1 trade. However, when I read this thread sometimes it is like the Jays acquired both Kirk and Varsho in exchange for Gurriel and Moreno (LOL). Kirk should not even be factored in this trade, when he was already a Jay.

[brwnman]

^ like I said. Didn't take very long to prove my point.

I think my favourite part of all this nonsensical bickering is that Varshonites bring up Moreno's hitting as a negative (wRC+) and Varsho's homeruns as a positive while conveniently ignoring that Moreno has been a better hitter overall than Varsho even with his lack of power. Really hammering home how god awful of a hitter he's been with the Jays. A slap hitter is better than Varsho - gotta hurt. But some are convinced Varho's going to get 45M AAV, because that's what he's worth

D'Back continue winning this trade 3 years in row. They chose well.

The trade was Gurriel and Moreno for Varsho. It was a 2 for 1 trade. However, when I read this thread sometimes it is like the Jays acquired both Kirk and Varsho in exchange for Gurriel and Moreno (LOL). Kirk should not even be factored in this trade, when he was already a Jay.

It's pretty simple. If you add Kirk because that's who the Jays kept, you add Carroll because that's who the D'Backs kept. They're more than welcome to do that comparison too and see who won the trade.

[Randle McMurphy]

So the sad Moreno backers want the thread locked after the trade got confirmed this year for what it was all along, an enormous win for the Jays? After all these years and during phenomenal seasons by Kirk and Varsho?

I think that really says it all, doesn't it?

[Randle McMurphy]

Also, it shouldn't need to be repeated but Carroll/Varsho wasn't an either/or choice for the DBacks in the same way that Kirk/Moreno were for the Jays. There are 3 outfield starting positions, not 1.

The Jays, however, had to make a choice for their long-term starting C and came to the conclusion that Kirk was the superior catcher over Moreno going forward. Fortunately, their assessment was right on the mark and they also managed to acquire one of the best outfielders in baseball while making that choice.

Really, it's hard to think of a bigger win of a trade for the Jays in the Shapiro era than this one.

[brwnman]

It's not like the Jays were picking between Kirk/Moreno. They also had Jansen. So the decision was between 3 catchers and which one they were going to trade. Trading Kirk would have been the best option in a win now move since he had B2B disappointing seasons and was worse than Moreno in both.

Not only did the D'Backs trade the guy who is an awful hitter, they got a better hitting LF and kept the best player in the deal.

Hard to think of a bigger opportunity wasted in the Shatkins era than this one.

EDIT - 3 consecutive years where D'Backs have won this trade but the sadist Varshonites want this thread to continue because "there's always next year"