Fire John Schneider / Or the Analytics Staff and Above Now... just fire somebody for this!

[changes]

Fanbases always take the bait putting a disproportional amount of blame on the coach.

See half of the delusional raptors fanbase that think the sole act of replacing a good coach with a new guy will fix a lot of their problems, and are excited to head into the season with the same garbage roster.

Management/ownership love it though.

[And1Skip]

Bring Gibby back. He hated analytics and could manage pitching with the best of them. I want that Gibby strut dammit.

I don't think he hated analytics at all as he often made the analytically inclined decision in-game. But he knew to trust his eyes above all else in a single game and that is probably why he'll never get another manager's job in this broken sport.

Gibby definitely used analytics - which in the grand scheme of things isn't rocket science as it appears to be. Lefties vs Lefties, loading up the top of the line-up (heck, Gibby used Bautista leading off because he had to and it worked). Only difference is yes, Gibby uses his gut and trusts his gut over the numbers in high leverage situations. Game 5 vs KC, he let Estrada pitch into the 8th inning before taking him out in shut-out. He took RA Dickey out after 4+ innings of 1 run ball because he knew the Rangers were ready to hit bombs on that knuckler.(now they were also up 7 runs because that offence was historically good unlike this year)

[Brinbe]

Shatkins had better go. I've never thought they were any good and they haven't proven they can build a contender despite being given ample time and resources. Robbers better make that change.

Schneider wasn't great but we know this organisation runs their decisions through the front office. They make those calls and they've built this flawed team. Who else deserves it? Schneider and Charlie were already their guys. They need to go.

[C Court]

My understanding of the Jays Analytics department is that it’s a large team (20 employees) which is compromised primarily of smart young Ivy League MBAs.

They’re a group who could be crunching numbers to sell soap or beer and they generally don’t come from baseball backgrounds beyond being fans. My son is a Harvard grad who was offered a job by Shapiro when he first built the Jays analytics team. He declined.

[Randle McMurphy]

My understanding of the Jays Analytics department is that it’s a large team (20 employees) which is compromised primarily of smart young Ivy League MBAs.

They’re a group who could be crunching numbers to sell soap or beer and they generally don’t come from baseball backgrounds beyond being fans. My son is a Harvard grad who was offered a job by Shapiro when he first built the Jays analytics team. He declined.

That is my understanding as well. It is also apparent that none of them have a clue how sports (and people) actually work if they are pre-directing decisions like Shoemaker for Ray and Berrios for Kikuchi regardless of what is happening on the field.

[ItsDanger]

I've followed baseball a long time. I just can't recall such an idiotic move like that.

I can. It happened 3 years ago in the same WC2 game in the same inning with Matt Shoemaker.

Shoemaker coming off injury isnt in same league as prime Berrios.

[Randle McMurphy]

I've followed baseball a long time. I just can't recall such an idiotic move like that.

I can. It happened 3 years ago in the same WC2 game in the same inning with Matt Shoemaker.

Shoemaker coming off injury isnt in same league as prime Berrios.

You obviously have forgotten just how good Shoemaker was in that game when they pulled him. The move was just about identical to this one.

[Randle McMurphy]

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[Raptors Realtor]

I was super annoyed by that move obviously, but it wasn't Schneider's decision... With that said, at the end of the day it doesn't matter who pitches if you can't score runs.

[Fairview4Life]

My understanding of the Jays Analytics department is that it’s a large team (20 employees) which is compromised primarily of smart young Ivy League MBAs.

They’re a group who could be crunching numbers to sell soap or beer and they generally don’t come from baseball backgrounds beyond being fans. My son is a Harvard grad who was offered a job by Shapiro when he first built the Jays analytics team. He declined.

This is your sons fault for not taking the job and making sure they didn't **** up all the time.

[Spiderdan22]

Since the analytics people work for Shatkins...this is all Statkins fault...he has screwed the pooch consistently since day one...he must be fired.

[ItsDanger]

The modeling is applicable to large samples like the regular season. In a playoff series, a small sample, the delta variance is just too wide to warrant this usage. I'd love to see if they have balls to justify their method publicly. Won't ever happen. Seems like they're doing real time execution of the model's outcomes when experimenting isn't justified. Just incredible.

[Parataxis]

I've followed baseball a long time. I just can't recall such an idiotic move like that.

It's like he was embarassed about pulling Gausman too early in Game 2 last year, and thought - you know what will make people forget about that? An even worse quick pull this year.

[Michael Bradley]

Schneider and Atkins are probably attached at the hip at this point. If Atkins is staying, which I assume he will be, then Schneider isn’t going anywhere.

My hope is that the Jays do a complete house cleaning, front office and coaching, but I don’t see Shapiro letting Atkins go, and really Atkins is the piece that has to go in order for the significant change to begin.

[guvernator]

lol with all the clown takes. this is still a top 5 team talent wise and is good enough to secure the 3rd WC spot with entire offense missing (sans Bo). So, there will be no house cleaning for the next 2 years. If they fail to sign Bo, then we may see the team going in different direction which could may snowball into bigger changes.

Carry Vlad through arbitration and dont even pick up his agent's calls during free agency. That guy is totally an unserious person and not fit to be a centre piece of a WS caliber team. Which probably means Jays aren't winning the whole thing anytime soon. But atleast they'll be a playoff team and that's nothing to scoff at considering the history of this franchise.

[Randle McMurphy]

I've followed baseball a long time. I just can't recall such an idiotic move like that.

It's like he was embarassed about pulling Gausman too early in Game 2 last year, and thought - you know what will make people forget about that? An even worse quick pull this year.

He had nothing to do with today’s decision and all but said as much after the game.

[Parataxis]

I've followed baseball a long time. I just can't recall such an idiotic move like that.

It's like he was embarassed about pulling Gausman too early in Game 2 last year, and thought - you know what will make people forget about that? An even worse quick pull this year.

He had nothing to do with today’s decision and all but said as much after the game.

Again, Schneider is the stand in for whoever makes the decisions. I didn't say a name for a reason.

Say Schneider, say Atkins, say "Analytics guy number 17". It really doesn't matter who actually made the call; what matters is that that call was made.

[Asianiac_24]

John Schneider should be fired regardless, his constant lineup changes and irrational love for Biggio have lost us games. Why is Davis Schneider sitting on the bench, and why is Biggio hitting 5 after Bo Bichette, when we have simply better hitters like Kirk?

[ItsDanger]

They should fire all the analytics people and whoever hired them.

Stats 101: nonuniform sampling can lead to analysis errors. Too many subjective and unquantifed factors at play here. If they were as good as they think, they would know that. Just unreal.

[johanliebert]

Atkins has to go, like Kyle dubus. Then Bobby Webster. Sweep out all the young nerdy analytics types

It wouldn’t change anything. The owners empower the analytic guys, they have more say than the FO. This is just how the game operates now.