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RalphWiggum wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:

RalphWiggum wrote:Then you trade him for 80¢ on the dollar?

Not saying that either, but I’d be much more inclined to do that than extending him for sure.

Well we gotta make a choice?

Why? I would think it’s pretty easy to just play out 2024 and see if he continues the clear downward trend (which is entirely what I’d expect the Jays to do).

rarefind wrote:

RalphWiggum wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:Not saying that either, but I’d be much more inclined to do that than extending him for sure.

Well we gotta make a choice?

He absolutely cannot walk as a FA. We either have to take the gamble and extend him or trade him.

I’d also much rather let him walk as a FA after 2025 than ever gambling on this guy. He’s really not been that good a player in his career.

No way I am extending Bichette or Guerrero now. Let's see how 2024 plays out. Prefer to make a run at Juan Soto and offering him a big deal instead next off-season, if Vlad has a similar 2024 season like 2023.

Mehar wrote:No way I am extending Bichette or Guerrero now. Let's see how 2024 plays out. Prefer to make a run at Juan Soto and offering him a big deal instead next off-season, if Vlad has a similar 2024 season like 2023.

We should lock up our high end assets. We only have a couple - including a buy low opportunity. And we’re not acquiring anyone better. Gives us a baseline and cost certainty before other moves. Obviously we have the money.

SharoneWright wrote:

Mehar wrote:No way I am extending Bichette or Guerrero now. Let's see how 2024 plays out. Prefer to make a run at Juan Soto and offering him a big deal instead next off-season, if Vlad has a similar 2024 season like 2023.

We should lock up our high end assets. We only have a couple - including a buy low opportunity. And we’re not acquiring anyone better. Gives us a baseline and cost certainty before other moves. Obviously we have the money.

This would make sense if Vlad could be considered a high end asset. I don’t know how anybody could be anything but skeptical about that 5 years into in his career now.

Randle McMurphy wrote:

SharoneWright wrote:

Mehar wrote:No way I am extending Bichette or Guerrero now. Let's see how 2024 plays out. Prefer to make a run at Juan Soto and offering him a big deal instead next off-season, if Vlad has a similar 2024 season like 2023.

We should lock up our high end assets. We only have a couple - including a buy low opportunity. And we’re not acquiring anyone better. Gives us a baseline and cost certainty before other moves. Obviously we have the money.

This would make sense if Vlad could be considered a high end asset. I don’t know how anybody could be anything but skeptical about that 5 years into in his career now.

I've been as frustrated as you. But,,,, when you're on your death bed, you say a Hail Mary. I think we're at that point.

We don't need to make it some sort of Stanton contract...

SharoneWright wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:

SharoneWright wrote:
We should lock up our high end assets. We only have a couple - including a buy low opportunity. And we’re not acquiring anyone better. Gives us a baseline and cost certainty before other moves. Obviously we have the money.

This would make sense if Vlad could be considered a high end asset. I don’t know how anybody could be anything but skeptical about that 5 years into in his career now.

I've been as frustrated as you. But,,,, when you're on your death bed, you say a Hail Mary. I think we're at that point.

We don't need to make it some sort of Stanton contract...

He’s clearly a talented hitter but I just don’t see any evidence right now that he’s the kind of player you should be giving a massive contract to. They don’t need to do anything with him right now.

Mehar wrote:No way I am extending Bichette or Guerrero now. Let's see how 2024 plays out. Prefer to make a run at Juan Soto and offering him a big deal instead next off-season, if Vlad has a similar 2024 season like 2023.

I’m calling it now, Soto will probably resign with the Yankees. No big time free agent is coming here, unless they're well late into their prime like Frank Thomas or Clemons who eventually asked to be traded, LOL. The quicker you accept this, the more you’ll understand that like the Raps, the BJs will always get their best talent through trades or through the homegrown route via draft only.

Therefore the BJs will either need to see how Vlad and Bo pans out and evaluate during the mid season before pulling the trigger on a trade IMO. The problem with Vladdy I think is that the league has figured him out and pitchers have been exploiting outside pitches to him that usually puts him away. This is his Achilles’ heel and it doesn’t seem like he’s able to overcome this which is why his numbers have gone terribly down. Bo on the other hand, is a great contact hitter, but he’s not a legit power threat. Unless Bo starts juicing to max out his powers, I don’t see him hitting a lot of dingers anytime soon. He'll always be that great star in your lineup, but not a true superstar.

The BJs are in a huge pickle now, much like with the Raps 3 years ago. The Roster is just limited and there's not much you can do when you can't sign big time free agents and good pitching can only get you so far. I don't trust the FO being able to make any great trades either, especially after what happened with Moreno. Plus, the farm system is stretching thin as well. I think the FO will have to eventually call this experiment as a failure and do a proper rebuild. The league is getting more and more stacked by the day, especially now with the Yankees and Dodgers added back into the mix. Unfortunately, I just don't see how the Jays can compete in this type of environment.

Mehar wrote:

RalphWiggum wrote:

Mehar wrote:The extra 100 millions dollars matters to Ohtani's agent, and his final commission. Ohtani wants his agent to get the Maximum Best Deal possible, and I applaud his agent for using the Jays as Leverage to get that extra 100 million from the Dodgers. The Dodgers could have held their guns, but his agent knew they would fold and cough up more money, with the rumours going around how Ohtani was likely to sign with the Jays. Brilliant job by Ohtani's agent.

Ohtani's agent didn't decide where he landed, Ohtani did.

I don't want to be rude but you're beyond naive if you think a player of Ohtani's stature got guided towards a city he wasn't 100% in on because it netted his agent an extra 5 million.

Of course I agree. Like I mentioned in my other posts, to me the Dodgers were always the favourite to land him since Ohtani loves living in Newport Beach/Southern California and playing home games on West Coast Time. However, it is also naive to say that the Jays were not used as Leverage for the Dodgers to raise their offer to 700 million over 10 years.

We were probably used as leverage, I'm just saying it was always a clear bluff that the Dodgers could've avoided.

If they offer 10 years 550 million and completely remove themselves from that point on he's still more likely to be a Dodger than a Jay.

We were definitely used as leverage. Most of these players do. It's depressing knowing that no big superstar wants to sign and come and play for this city.

Randle McMurphy wrote:

SharoneWright wrote:

Randle McMurphy wrote:This would make sense if Vlad could be considered a high end asset. I don’t know how anybody could be anything but skeptical about that 5 years into in his career now.

I've been as frustrated as you. But,,,, when you're on your death bed, you say a Hail Mary. I think we're at that point.

We don't need to make it some sort of Stanton contract...

He’s clearly a talented hitter but I just don’t see any evidence right now that he’s the kind of player you should be giving a massive contract to. They don’t need to do anything with him right now.

Agreed. According to ESPN's stats page, Guerrero's 2 WAR last year put him 17th in the league among first basemen. So he wasn't even above the median for the position. If we add in DH's, he goes to tied for 23rd in WAR (tied with Brandon Belt, actually).

The harsh reality is that his production last year is something you can buy off the scrap heap for $5MM to $10MM per year. This is not a player you hand out a monster contract too. Actually, it's the kind of production that struggles to find a full-time job in a few years.

If they want to fix Guerrero, perhaps the Jays should consider hiring a hitting coach that isn't a failed minor league shortstop that could never hit himself. But hey, it's the Jays were talking about here. I'm sure Martinez is here forever.

Ross on vladdy
7:50

?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg

There are no ethics in sports or big business.

While you can't make someone sign with you who never intended to, we now have two black eyes. One from the WC series and now this debacle. Rational thought doesn't blame a front office after this but we got played... badly. That certainly is not something to write home about.

At least we have some nice renos but too bad most people won't be able to justify the ticket cost to watch a mid baseball team. I'm worried as we are now in desperation mode and I feel like we are going to do something really dumb now to sell some tickets. Good thing we have Ross Atkins at the helm.

…isn’t this playing the Dodgers, not the Jays? They might have used the Jays to up the value but the goal was to get the Dodgers to offer more, and boy did they. The whole scam was setup to oceans 11 the Dodgers.

Anyway, Atkins should leak his dogs name.

And maybe adjust how they deal with CAA agents going forward.

polo007 wrote:

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Some of this doesn't make sense if dodgers thought othani was on his way to blue Jays on that flight, his agent would be on the flight. They made their final offer while he was supposedly on flight to Toronto. Guess the agent said turn the plane around, we are going back to LA. While I believe dodgers didn't know what exactly was going on, they reached all othani people to make the final offer?

Also your saying if we had top 5 farm system we'd have othani? Guess should have kept Monroe or traded him for high end prospects

Green Hornet wrote:

Mehar wrote:No way I am extending Bichette or Guerrero now. Let's see how 2024 plays out. Prefer to make a run at Juan Soto and offering him a big deal instead next off-season, if Vlad has a similar 2024 season like 2023.

I’m calling it now, Soto will probably resign with the Yankees. No big time free agent is coming here, unless they're well late into their prime like Frank Thomas or Clemons who eventually asked to be traded, LOL. The quicker you accept this, the more you’ll understand that like the Raps, the BJs will always get their best talent through trades or through the homegrown route via draft only.

The BJs are in a huge pickle now, much like with the Raps 3 years ago. The Roster is just limited and there's not much you can do when you can't sign big time free agents and good pitching can only get you so far. I don't trust the FO being able to make any great trades either, especially after what happened with Moreno. Plus, the farm system is stretching thin as well. I think the FO will have to eventually call this experiment as a failure and do a proper rebuild. The league is getting more and more stacked by the day, especially now with the Yankees and Dodgers added back into the mix. Unfortunately, I just don't see how the Jays can compete in this type of environment.

The Blue Jays definitely haven't had a problem attracting premier free agents like the Raptors have. Yes they missed out on Ohtani, but so did a bunch of other teams.

Just recently with this front office, we've signed Springer, Ryu, Gausman. Those were all top free agents in their class that offseason. We've also been able to pay to keep Berrios just after trading for him.

There's no salary cap in baseball. So teams that are able to spend the money are always going to be destinations for free agents. Even this offseason, should the Blue Jays want, they can absolutely make a play for other top free agents like Bellinger. We've consistently had a top 10 payroll in recent years.

Cyrus wrote:

polo007 wrote:

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Some of this doesn't make sense if dodgers thought othani was on his way to blue Jays on that flight, his agent would be on the flight. They made their final offer while he was supposedly on flight to Toronto. Guess the agent said turn the plane around, we are going back to LA. While I believe dodgers didn't know what exactly was going on, they reached all othani people to make the final offer?

Also your saying if we had top 5 farm system we'd have othani? Guess should have kept Monroe or traded him for high end prospects

Lolll our farm system doesn't matter. We weren't offering 700 million, he was never coming here anyways he just used the Jays to scare the Dodgers into upping there's last minute.