Varsho/Moreno/Kirk Discussion Thread

[Randle McMurphy]

Poor Varshonites, calling a 71-game sample a "good season" all the while knowing his offensive numbers were already trending downwards and his defense cost the Jays more runs than he saved this past season. In the playoffs, he made two above average plays and let 3 balls drop that should have been caught by an above average CF. And of course, his arm is the worst in ML history for an outfielder - that's only going to get worse.

An oft-injured, below average offensive outfielder with declining defense is who they have hitched their wagon too. Hard to walk back from that one, I suppose.

Is Varsho's shoulder supposed to heal this off-season, or is he cooked as a defender too? Right now he's a below-average hitter with zero range who can make nice catches in the OF. That's not very valuable.

Varsho's fWAR rate this year was only behind Springer and Kirk among Jays players. That is the definition of extremely valuable.

Pretty good chance Kirk and Varsho will also lead the team in WAR next year if they stay healthy as well (unless Vlad chooses to take his playoff form to the regular season and doesn't decide to spend half of the year just hitting groundballs).

[Mehar]

Read on Twitter

Not only was the trade a massive win, I'd argue it was the best Jays trade in a generation. If Kirk and Varsho were not Jays this year (and they wouldn't have been without this trade), this was a middling .500 team that finishes out of the playoffs. Their presence and elite play elevated the franchise to real contender status and led them on a run that would have ended in a WS appearance.

What a trade.

Yeah post a tweet before Game 3 of the World Series is completed, before Varsho choked like a dog in the final 4 Games (especially Games 6 and 7 leaving 13 men on base).

You should post all the tweets I saw after Game 7, calling for this bum Varsho to be sent packing. It would be nice if you could be a fan of the next team Noodle Arm Varsho goes to also, and start posting in that forum.

[GameChannel]

Randle is trolling at this point. Can’t wait for the day Varsho **** off from this team and terrorizes another teams fan base.

[Mehar]

Randle is trolling at this point. Can’t wait for the day Varsho **** off from this team and terrorizes another teams fan base.

I am such a nice guy that I promise to buy Fan Boy Randle a Varsho jersey for the next team he plays for in 2026. It would be great if Varsho, IKF, and Little were a package deal for a different Fan Base in 2026.

Those Fan Bases will love The Three Stooges. Randle should remind those Fan Bases on the Exit Velocity of all the Ground Balls his hero Noodle Arm Varsho will hit in 2026, and all the bad luck only his hero faces to get on base.

[brwnman]

Jays played 16 games above .500 when Varsho went to the IL after May and before he returned in August. Jays played at a 106-win pace without him. This team was an elite team without him.

[brwnman]

Read on Twitter

Not only was the trade a massive win, I'd argue it was the best Jays trade in a generation. If Kirk and Varsho were not Jays this year (and they wouldn't have been without this trade), this was a middling .500 team that finishes out of the playoffs. Their presence and elite play elevated the franchise to real contender status and led them on a run that would have ended in a WS appearance.

What a trade.

Yeah post a tweet before Game 3 of the World Series is completed, before Varsho choked like a dog in the final 4 Games (especially Games 6 and 7 leaving 13 men on base).

You should post all the tweets I saw after Game 7, calling for this bum Varsho to be sent packing. It would be nice if you could be a fan of the next team Noodle Arm Varsho goes to also, and start posting in that forum.

That tweet is also pointless. It's just another viewpoint from another disillusioned fanboy.

[brwnman]

Poor Varshonites, calling a 71-game sample a "good season" all the while knowing his offensive numbers were already trending downwards and his defense cost the Jays more runs than he saved this past season. In the playoffs, he made two above average plays and let 3 balls drop that should have been caught by an above average CF. And of course, his arm is the worst in ML history for an outfielder - that's only going to get worse.

An oft-injured, below average offensive outfielder with declining defense is who they have hitched their wagon too. Hard to walk back from that one, I suppose.

Is Varsho's shoulder supposed to heal this off-season, or is he cooked as a defender too? Right now he's a below-average hitter with zero range who can make nice catches in the OF. That's not very valuable.

Varsho's fWAR rate this year was only behind Springer and Kirk among Jays players. That is the definition of extremely valuable.

Pretty good chance Kirk and Varsho will also lead the team in WAR next year if they stay healthy as well (unless Vlad chooses to take his playoff form to the regular season and doesn't decide to spend half of the year just hitting groundballs).

Moreno's fWAR rate was higher than Varsho this year, in case anyone was wondering.

as per Randle, that is the definition of being extremely valuable and we can now firmly conclude that Moreno is more valuable than Varsho.

Oh and btw, Moreno's fWAR rate was higher in 2024 and 2023 as well.

Thank you RM, it finally happened after ~115 pages.

[s e n s i]

imagine still slandering daulton varsho in the big 2025 because of some truly bizarre "gabbie moreno" obsession, especially after your team just made it to the world series. we should have just started tyler heineman (and put jonatan clase in CF) all postseason if we wanted to know what that fantasy of having a powerless, flare-hitting catcher would feel like.

[GameChannel]

Is Varsho's shoulder supposed to heal this off-season, or is he cooked as a defender too? Right now he's a below-average hitter with zero range who can make nice catches in the OF. That's not very valuable.

Varsho's fWAR rate this year was only behind Springer and Kirk among Jays players. That is the definition of extremely valuable.

Pretty good chance Kirk and Varsho will also lead the team in WAR next year if they stay healthy as well (unless Vlad chooses to take his playoff form to the regular season and doesn't decide to spend half of the year just hitting groundballs).

Moreno's fWAR rate was higher than Varsho this year, in case anyone was wondering.

as per Randle, that is the definition of being extremely valuable and we can now firmly conclude that Moreno is more valuable than Varsho.

Oh and btw, Moreno's fWAR rate was higher in 2024 and 2023 as well.

Thank you RM, it finally happened after ~115 pages.

Waiting for RM to shift goal posts again cuz delusion is hell of a drug..

[s e n s i]

to the light-hitting lovers club: i'm with you. i think next year is the year moreno breaks out for his banner year, finally eclipsing that 400 PA and 10 HR season that has eluded him since he came into the league. watch out everyone. just a few more years until he reaches that "pudge 2.0" status.

[brwnman]

imagine still slandering daulton varsho in the big 2025 because of some truly bizarre "gabbie moreno" obsession, especially after your team just made it to the world series. we should have just started tyler heineman (and put jonatan clase in CF) all postseason if we wanted to know what that fantasy of having a powerless, flare-hitting catcher would feel like.

imagine lying about Varsho's postseason stats to downplay Moreno's contribution.

then imagine downplaying Moreno's stats to act like Kirk is some big power-hitter.

then imagine acting like Moreno isn't a better hitter than both of them and hasn't been the last 3 years.

[brwnman]

to the light-hitting lovers club: i'm with you. i think next year is the year moreno breaks out for his banner year, finally eclipsing that 400 PA and 10 HR season that has eluded him since he came into the league. watch out everyone. just a few more years until he reaches that "pudge 2.0" status.

to the delusional crowd, I'm with you. Year 4 will finally be the year that the Jays will win this trade. I know the first 3 years D'Backs won this trade and the only player that the Jays got back lost them the WS. But Year 4, it's our year! Prime Mike Trout coming through!

[Mehar]

imagine still slandering daulton varsho in the big 2025 because of some truly bizarre "gabbie moreno" obsession, especially after your team just made it to the world series. we should have just started tyler heineman (and put jonatan clase in CF) all postseason if we wanted to know what that fantasy of having a powerless, flare-hitting catcher would feel like.

I could care less about Moreno, Gurriel, or even Kirk at this point. Give me a quality hitting Centre Fielder for 2026 that is a decent enough defender that you can slot in the middle of the order, so I do not have to witness Noodle Arm Varsho throw a baseball or hit ever again.

Get me Cody Bellinger with all the money Rogers raked in the post-season. Varsho cost this team a title by having the most pathetic hitting performance ever in a Game 6 and Game 7. One player leaving 13 men on base, and all this bum had to do was hit a SAC Fly and a ball out of the infield and he would have been a hero forever.

[Randle McMurphy]

Read on Twitter

Someday the Varsho/Kirk haters will mature in here and realize what they have but not yet. I’ll enjoy reading the nonsensical hate-filled rants until then.

[Mehar]

Read on Twitter

Someday the Varsho/Kirk haters will mature in here and realize what they have but not yet. I’ll enjoy reading the nonsensical hate-filled rants until then.

So you post another Tweet before the World Series (lol). How about posting a Tweet after the World Series, after bum Varsho had the most pathetic hitting performance ever? Cannot find any I guess after the World Series (lol). I found plenty wanting Noodle Arm Varsho to be sent packing.

[s e n s i]

imagine still slandering daulton varsho in the big 2025 because of some truly bizarre "gabbie moreno" obsession, especially after your team just made it to the world series. we should have just started tyler heineman (and put jonatan clase in CF) all postseason if we wanted to know what that fantasy of having a powerless, flare-hitting catcher would feel like.

imagine lying about Varsho's postseason stats to downplay Moreno's contribution.

then imagine downplaying Moreno's stats to act like Kirk is some big power-hitter.

then imagine acting like Moreno isn't a better hitter than both of them and hasn't been the last 3 years.

yeah, i didn't realize fangraphs hadn't updated to reflect the game 7 stats as well at the time of my post so i'll stand corrected

it doesn't change the fact that immediately rushing to the defense of "gabbie moreno" after your team just lost in game 7 of the world series is just really and truly loser behaviour distilled to it's purest form.

[Randle McMurphy]

The Jays don't even have a late lead at all to blow in game 7 without the best defensive play of the WS (Varsho's ridiculous catch with the bases loaded on a ball hit 110 MPH off the bat by Teoscar in the 4th).

Extend him now while you have the chance. He'll continue to be one of the more valuable outfielders in the league for years to come and this team badly cannot afford to lose that.

[Mehar]

The Jays don't even have a late lead at all to blow in game 7 without the best defensive play of the WS (Varsho's ridiculous catch with the bases loaded on a ball hit 110 MPH off the bat by Teoscar in the 4th).

Extend him now while you have the chance. He'll continue to be one of the more valuable outfielders in the league for years to come and this team badly cannot afford to lose that.

The Jays would have already the lead, and won Game 6 also and probably Game 3, if your Number 5 hitter was simply average and did not leave 13 men on Base in the final two games. They would have won the World Series if your hero hit a ball out of the infield in the 9th in Game 7. A simple SAC FLY. In addition, the SAC FLY run your hero allowed with his noodle arm, could have been prevented with another Centre Fielder with a much stronger arm.

You have the opportunity in free agency to get a quality hitting Centre Fielder in Bellinger, who will also not cost you a draft pick. Forget spending 400 million on Tucker, decline the 10 million on Noodle Arm Varsho and get Bellinger that you can slot in the middle of the order. A true Number 5 and middle of the order hitter, compared to bum Varsho and his Cricket Swings after Game 2 of the ALDS.

[brwnman]

imagine still slandering daulton varsho in the big 2025 because of some truly bizarre "gabbie moreno" obsession, especially after your team just made it to the world series. we should have just started tyler heineman (and put jonatan clase in CF) all postseason if we wanted to know what that fantasy of having a powerless, flare-hitting catcher would feel like.

imagine lying about Varsho's postseason stats to downplay Moreno's contribution.

then imagine downplaying Moreno's stats to act like Kirk is some big power-hitter.

then imagine acting like Moreno isn't a better hitter than both of them and hasn't been the last 3 years.

yeah, i didn't realize fangraphs hadn't updated to reflect the game 7 stats as well at the time of my post so i'll stand corrected

it doesn't change the fact that immediately rushing to the defense of "gabbie moreno" after your team just lost in game 7 of the world series is just really and truly loser behaviour distilled to it's purest form.

Initially, no one was really saying anything in defense of Gabriel Moreno; it was criticism of Varsho's play during the playoffs. However, you did mention Moreno during these playoffs in the early portion of the Jays' run.

[brwnman]

Varsho's fWAR rate this year was only behind Springer and Kirk among Jays players. That is the definition of extremely valuable.

Pretty good chance Kirk and Varsho will also lead the team in WAR next year if they stay healthy as well (unless Vlad chooses to take his playoff form to the regular season and doesn't decide to spend half of the year just hitting groundballs).

Moreno's fWAR rate was higher than Varsho this year, in case anyone was wondering.

as per Randle, that is the definition of being extremely valuable and we can now firmly conclude that Moreno is more valuable than Varsho.

Oh and btw, Moreno's fWAR rate was higher in 2024 and 2023 as well.

Thank you RM, it finally happened after ~115 pages.

Waiting for RM to shift goal posts again cuz delusion is hell of a drug..