Yosemite Dan wrote:guvernator wrote:With the same team + halladay and rolen jays won 10 games less. Last year's 85 wins mean squat until we establish a core of this team. We dont even know what the jays have in Hill and Lind - supposedly team's 2 best hitters coming into the season. Dont fool yourself thinking that this team is ready to compete.
JP fell into the same trap repeatedly and look where that got us. This division has potentially 3 95 win teams ahead of us, which means jays need a lot of top level talent. That is what AA is trying to address.
If people liked AA's moves last year, they really have no right to be upset with this move because he is following the same MO.
Marcum is a middle of the rotation starter; If people think he is going to take the jays to the promise land then prepare to be even more befuddled over the coming year.
Like Pat Gillick said in an interview with mccown last month, Jays are not ready.
Again you make it sound like Marcum is some old workhorse pitcher and he's not. He has alot of years left and he could have easily won 20 games this year if he had the run support. If someone on this board proposed this trade 2 days ago, 99.9% of us would of said no **** way. Just because AA did it (or was pressured to do it which is more likely to avoid future payroll burdens, it's Rogers don't forget) does not make this trade any better.
Alot of you guys think we are going to follow the TB Ray's model of successs. That's a total fluke because all thier drafted players matured at the same time and therefore could control thier payroll while still being a playoff team. They had the perfect storm of talent coming together at a pretty young age and had the luck of all thier picks panning out. But for every TB there is Kansas City and Pittsburgh who don't have that luck with thier draft picks or at least not all at the same time and are horrible for years and years.
I don't disagree with trading Marcum but if you gonna trade one of your best starters you better get an everyday player (1B or 3B) which we need who is young but can contribute now not someone who might make it to the majors and at this point he's a 20 year old is a definate "maybe" like any other 20 year old in ther minors.
1) He is not a workhorse and he never will be because especially in this division which has 3 patient lineups. Had he stayed 200 IP yearly would be pushing it. No he wouldn't have won 20 games.
2) TB still has boat load of talent. Longoria hasn't had that superstar level year yet. Same can be said for guys like hellickson and davis who are just breaking in. They have a boat load of talent coming up on the horizon.
Kansas and Pittsburgh have had terrible management for years ( Dayton moore was hired in 2006 and you are just now seeing the results in their farm system). Besides they don't have the payroll flexibility of the jays so its foolish to compare either KC and Pittsburgh. Hell I wouldnt even compare Rays with jays. Because if jays had crawford and were playoff contenders, they wouldnt have let him go.
3) If marcum had stuck around next year, it is very likely he would #5 on the depth chart behind ( RR, cecil, morrow and drabek) so lets not go overboard here. Besides Stewart, Wojo and Mcguire could easily be ready to join the jays rotation as early as next year, so jays are dealing from a position of strength.
All prospects are maybes. Morrow was a maybe coming into last year but we knew he had the talent to be an ace. Same can be said of lawrie, who is drawing comparisons to jeff kent and ian kinsler.
