Joe Biagini, Aaron Sanchez traded to Astros for Derek Fisher

phillipmike · Post #301 » by **phillipmike** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:45 am

Unfortunate, hopefully he comes back healthy and moves to the pen where he should flourish.

phillipmike · Post #302 » by **phillipmike** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:52 am

Trades aren’t decided in a few weeks but;

Biagini in AAA
Sanchez his old self and on the IL
Cal Stevenson with a wRC+ of 82 with the Astros A+ team (albeit with a low BABIP and a high walk rate, should normalize soon)

Fisher with 4 HRs, 3 of which against the Yankees, Tampa and Dodgers (Kershaw)

xAIRNESSx · Post #303 » by **xAIRNESSx** » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:05 am

At least I won't have to hear how "terrible" Atkins and Shapiro are for a little while.

fbalmeida · Post #304 » by **fbalmeida** » Tue Sep 3, 2019 8:26 am

xAIRNESSx wrote:At least I won't have to hear how "terrible" Atkins and Shapiro are for a little while.

Fisher has batted .130 since you posted this.

Whatever can be said about Shapiro and Atkins, this trade can be officially declared absolute bonkers. Fisher is trying his hardest to earn a mediocre career in AAA ball.

GreatWhiteStiff · Post #305 » by **GreatWhiteStiff** » Tue Sep 3, 2019 1:05 pm

His strikeout rate seems almost insane to me. in 2018 he struckout 42 times in 78 at bats! This year for the blue jays he's struckout a mere 25 times in 62 at bats!

BigLeagueChew · Post #306 » by **BigLeagueChew** » Tue Sep 3, 2019 4:40 pm

Noticed he's in the top 25 in O-swing %, he doesn't chase outside the zone much and he's still striking out. His reverse splits are weird too, .545 vs .876 OPS.

Post #307 » by **Schad** » Tue Sep 3, 2019 5:53 pm

Fisher's numbers are weird as hell. His chase rate is pretty good, and his swinging strike rate isn't all that high. That shouldn't really correspond to a 35.7% K rate.

On the flip side, he's hitting the ball on the ground way too much, but almost half of his flyballs leave the park. Larger sample needed, I guess.

dagger · Post #308 » by **dagger** » Thu Sep 5, 2019 4:30 pm

The Astros have shut down Sanchez for the season and he's going to need a "procedure" on his shoulder. Let them decide whether to tender him.

BigLeagueChew · Post #309 » by **BigLeagueChew** » Thu Sep 5, 2019 4:44 pm

dagger wrote:The Astros have shut down Sanchez for the season and he's going to need a "procedure" on his shoulder. Let them decide whether to tender him.

So much for blisters.

Black Watch · Post #310 » by **Black Watch** » Thu Sep 5, 2019 4:44 pm

Good! Everyone can shut up about the trade now :—)

phillipmike · Post #311 » by **phillipmike** » Thu Sep 5, 2019 6:14 pm

dagger wrote:The Astros have shut down Sanchez for the season and he's going to need a "procedure" on his shoulder. Let them decide whether to tender him.

Read on Twitter

Tanner · Post #312 » by **Tanner** » Thu Sep 5, 2019 6:18 pm

Black Watch wrote:Good! Everyone can shut up about the trade now :—)

Atkins had a low key great trade deadline (given how baseball trades happen today) and got way too much flack for it. I thought he was much better this year than last year, though he was selling at very very low value with Osuna and JD last year so maybe that's not entirely fair.

The_Hater · Post #313 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Sep 5, 2019 7:10 pm

Tanner wrote:
Black Watch wrote:Good! Everyone can shut up about the trade now :—)

Atkins had a low key great trade deadline (given how baseball trades happen today) and got way too much flack for it. I thought he was much better this year than last year, though he was selling at very very low value with Osuna and JD last year so maybe that's not entirely fair.

If ownership would have let Atkins trade JD the previous off-season, the haul would have been fantastic. They put him in a bad situation and the worst possible outcome occurred.

dagger · Post #314 » by **dagger** » Thu Sep 5, 2019 7:33 pm

The way the last several weeks have played out, the Jays gave up Sogard for value. I really like Chris Tucker as a solid future reliever if not more. For Stroman, I suspect they did better than many thought - especially with Woods Richardson. Stroman hasn't set the Mets world on fire; he's basically been a mid-rotation pitcher his entire career, and nothing seems to have changed by moving home to New York.

For Sanchez/Biagini, they are taking a flyer on Fisher - kind of the prototypical strong contact/high K rate outfielder they have targeted (I'm not a huge fan, but considering they basically got him for Biagini whom I was souring on, it's not a bad look.)

I'm less enamoured by the Kyle Johnson acquisition for Hudson - I thought Hudson was worth a little better prospect, and Johnson's numbers went south when he moved from High A Potomac to Dunedin. But he gets another season to prove he's got some upside.

But the return on Lynch was a lot better - a AA pitcher in Thomas Hatcher who was just adding a cutter that seems to have made him a little better bet to make the majors as something. The timing here was good, and I suspect the Cubs weren't expecting to keep Hatcher on the 40-man roster this winter, whereas the Jays have a lot of dross they can throw overboard to keep Hatcher around. Timing may also be a thing with Tucker, who profiles as a nice relief prospect but who was sidelined the past three months, and if he's healthy next spring could, like Hatcher, find his way to the Jays some time in 2020.

Relentless88 · Post #315 » by **Relentless88** » Thu Sep 5, 2019 8:13 pm

dagger wrote:The way the last several weeks have played out, the Jays gave up Sogard for value. I really like Chris Tucker as a solid future reliever if not more. For Stroman, I suspect they did better than many thought - especially with Woods Richardson. Stroman hasn't set the Mets world on fire; he's basically been a mid-rotation pitcher his entire career, and nothing seems to have changed by moving home to New York.

For Sanchez/Biagini, they are taking a flyer on Fisher - kind of the prototypical strong contact/high K rate outfielder they have targeted (I'm not a huge fan, but considering they basically got him for Biagini whom I was souring on, it's not a bad look.)

I'm less enamoured by the Kyle Johnson acquisition for Hudson - I thought Hudson was worth a little better prospect, and Johnson's numbers went south when he moved from High A Potomac to Dunedin. But he gets another season to prove he's got some upside.

But the return on Lynch was a lot better - a AA pitcher in Thomas Hatcher who was just adding a cutter that seems to have made him a little better bet to make the majors as something. The timing here was good, and I suspect the Cubs weren't expecting to keep Hatcher on the 40-man roster this winter, whereas the Jays have a lot of dross they can throw overboard to keep Hatcher around. Timing may also be a thing with Tucker, who profiles as a nice relief prospect but who was sidelined the past three months, and if he's healthy next spring could, like Hatcher, find his way to the Jays some time in 2020.

I don't understand why they love these types that you've mentioned. Low OBP, sub 800 OPS guys like Fisher, Hernandez and Grichuk. Does anyone actually feel comfortable with having these guys as starters on a contending team?

I like the future of this infield (especially if Groshans pans out and Vladdy is moved to 1st), but the outfield is concerning. I find these types of players (Fisher/Hernandez/Grichuk) so hard to be excited about and really wish we didn't have them.

Nothing against the trade as Biagini and Sanchez were close to worthless but I hate that they are so attracted to these types of outfielders.

The_Hater · Post #316 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Sep 5, 2019 9:59 pm

Relentless88 wrote:
dagger wrote:The way the last several weeks have played out, the Jays gave up Sogard for value. I really like Chris Tucker as a solid future reliever if not more. For Stroman, I suspect they did better than many thought - especially with Woods Richardson. Stroman hasn't set the Mets world on fire; he's basically been a mid-rotation pitcher his entire career, and nothing seems to have changed by moving home to New York.

For Sanchez/Biagini, they are taking a flyer on Fisher - kind of the prototypical strong contact/high K rate outfielder they have targeted (I'm not a huge fan, but considering they basically got him for Biagini whom I was souring on, it's not a bad look.)

I'm less enamoured by the Kyle Johnson acquisition for Hudson - I thought Hudson was worth a little better prospect, and Johnson's numbers went south when he moved from High A Potomac to Dunedin. But he gets another season to prove he's got some upside.

But the return on Lynch was a lot better - a AA pitcher in Thomas Hatcher who was just adding a cutter that seems to have made him a little better bet to make the majors as something. The timing here was good, and I suspect the Cubs weren't expecting to keep Hatcher on the 40-man roster this winter, whereas the Jays have a lot of dross they can throw overboard to keep Hatcher around. Timing may also be a thing with Tucker, who profiles as a nice relief prospect but who was sidelined the past three months, and if he's healthy next spring could, like Hatcher, find his way to the Jays some time in 2020.

I don't understand why they love these types that you've mentioned. Low OBP, sub 800 OPS guys like Fisher, Hernandez and Grichuk. Does anyone actually feel comfortable with having these guys as starters on a contending team?

I like the future of this infield (especially if Groshans pans out and Vladdy is moved to 1st), but the outfield is concerning. I find these types of players (Fisher/Hernandez/Grichuk) so hard to be excited about and really wish we didn't have them.

Nothing against the trade as Biagini and Sanchez were close to worthless but I hate that they are so attracted to these types of outfielders.

Fisher was a high OPS guy in AAA, took lots of walks and was over .950 twice in 3 seasons. That was a huge part of the intrigue despite his huge struggles in MLB.

Grichuk I agree with, a terrible OBP along with 25 HR’s is just meh. I didn’t like signing him to that contract extension last winter.

And Hernandez wasn’t much of a prospect when they got him, if anything he’s overachieved as a Jay so I’m not going to complain there. He’s been so god the last 2 months, even showing an improved eye, that he might be the best of the 3.

Post #317 » by **Schad** » Thu Sep 5, 2019 10:07 pm

I'm not fond of that sort either, but there is a kind of logic to them: with their raw power and the bouncy ball, you only need them to find a tweak that turns them into modestly competent hitters and they can do an awful lot of damage. Aristides Aquino is the epitome: his minor league numbers looked awfully like the major league numbers posted by our three-headed whiff monster, but he overhauled his stance and has tapped into his power fully.

But Aquino is also why I'm dubious about the approach...I don't think that he can keep it up. And I'm not sure that Fisher/Grichuk/Hernandez are likely to be big producers, either. But when you're taking players for peanuts, you're always going to get ones with serious flaws, and this seems to be the flaw they are most comfortable with.

Tanner · Post #318 » by **Tanner** » Fri Sep 6, 2019 2:31 am

Acquiring them and extending them are two different things. Grichuk trade was good, extension was awful. You acquire these players for cheap, hope their power leads to a few good seasons, and then dip as soon as you have to pay them. Atkins dropped the ball on Grichuk badly. A 5% walk rate with a 25-30 K% is going to age like a month old banana unless he proves he can succeed long term with it, and he hasn't been that good aside from 2015. Fisher and Teoscar might have a better chance since they draw walks, but even then they are not core players. Maybe you get lucky and you get a Khris Davis type of run for a few years. But that's it.

Still if all you are giving up is one of the worst Sp's in baseball, a marginal reliever, and a 23 year old in A ball who walks, hits singles, and does nothing else, you could live with that type of risk.

manjusaka · Post #319 » by **manjusaka** » Mon Sep 9, 2019 1:16 pm

Fisher, Grichuk, Hernandez, McKinney and Drury they are pretty much the same; decent exit velocity, but poor K/BB rate, and low xBA. for somehow this approach just don't work for us. However, it worked somehow for the Orioles, for examples, Jon Schoop and recently Renato Nunez.

phillipmike · Post #320 » by **phillipmike** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:06 am

Biagini becomes the first relief pitcher in Astros history to give up 6 runs without getting an out.

Has an ERA bordering 8. Strikeouts are down to under 6 per 9 and walks are up to over 4 per 9.

Sanchez out for the season.

Stevenson and Fisher are the only ones that look serviceable since switching teams.