Shaun Marcum Traded to the Brewers for Brett Lawrie

[OldNo7]

I am not reading through 20 pages - with Hecc in our system, does anyone/everyone see them trying to move Lawrie to 2nd?

[LBJSeizedMyID]

With the same team + halladay and rolen jays won 10 games less. Last year's 85 wins mean squat until we establish a core of this team. We dont even know what the jays have in Hill and Lind - supposedly team's 2 best hitters coming into the season. Dont fool yourself thinking that this team is ready to compete.
JP fell into the same trap repeatedly and look where that got us. This division has potentially 3 95 win teams ahead of us, which means jays need a lot of top level talent. That is what AA is trying to address.
If people liked AA's moves last year, they really have no right to be upset with this move because he is following the same MO.
Marcum is a middle of the rotation starter; If people think he is going to take the jays to the promise land then prepare to be even more befuddled over the coming year.
Like Pat Gillick said in an interview with mccown last month, Jays are not ready.

Again you make it sound like Marcum is some old workhorse pitcher and he's not. He has alot of years left and he could have easily won 20 games this year if he had the run support. If someone on this board proposed this trade 2 days ago, 99.9% of us would of said no **** way. Just because AA did it (or was pressured to do it which is more likely to avoid future payroll burdens, it's Rogers don't forget) does not make this trade any better.

Alot of you guys think we are going to follow the TB Ray's model of successs. That's a total fluke because all thier drafted players matured at the same time and therefore could control thier payroll while still being a playoff team. They had the perfect storm of talent coming together at a pretty young age and had the luck of all thier picks panning out. But for every TB there is Kansas City and Pittsburgh who don't have that luck with thier draft picks or at least not all at the same time and are horrible for years and years.

I don't disagree with trading Marcum but if you gonna trade one of your best starters you better get an everyday player (1B or 3B) which we need who is young but can contribute now not someone who might make it to the majors and at this point he's a 20 year old is a definate "maybe" like any other 20 year old in ther minors.

TB's model of success was a perfect storm of all their drafted players maturing at the same time. How can that be a fluke? It was because of good drafting. You make it seem like the Jays have a wondeful core of stud players. I don't see one "stud" in our lineup. Most top teams have at least one stud. Milwaukee has two in Fielder & Braun.

Again, the haters seem to think rebuild mode is actually complete. After one year of trading Roy Halladay. Marcum could've been acquired to get an everyday 1B or 3B, but I can guarantee you the guys you think you can get for Marcum you can't.

[MGD24]

Vernon just tweeted this...

VernonWells10 To all who asked..Alex will do everything he can to make this team better and if that means a certain Royal, then....

So maybe this Marcum move really was a precursor to a Greinke deal

[DonYon]

Vernon just tweeted this...

VernonWells10 To all who asked..Alex will do everything he can to make this team better and if that means a certain Royal, then....

So maybe this Marcum move really was a precursor to a Greinke deal

I'm skeptical about whether that's really Vernon Wells tweeting.

[J-Roc]

Vernon just tweeted this...

VernonWells10 To all who asked..Alex will do everything he can to make this team better and if that means a certain Royal, then....

So maybe this Marcum move really was a precursor to a Greinke deal

I'm skeptical about whether that's really Vernon Wells tweeting.

Yeah took a quick look on his website and I don't see a twitter link.

http://vernonwells10.com/index.html

[flatjacket1]

We traded Roy Halladay for a prospect and people are cool, we trade Marcum for a prospect and people aren't.

I'm more than happy with getting better value. This guy is arguably our 2nd or 3rd best prospect. He is one of the younger players in AA and put up good numbers. Next year he will be in AAA for sure. Year after, maybe another year in AAA but he will be like 23 by the time he gets to the Majors.

[Lateral Quicks]

This deal, and the reactions to it, demonstrate just how hard it is to be the kind of GM AA claims to be. He is not afraid to trade popular players if he thinks it makes sense for the future of the team.

On the surface the Brewers seem to win this deal, but I believe when you look a little closer the Jays do alright.

1. Marcum is not the kind of power arm AA is after to compete in the AL East. His stats against the AL EAST have not been great, even in this his best season to date. AA is selling high, which is what most on this board support.

2. He is an injury risk, having just come back from Tommy John surgery. Let's not forget that at this time last year most people didn't expect anything close to a full season out of Marcum, and those that did didn't expect him to be as good as he was. Going forward, he has an arm motion (inverted W) that has been statistically shown to result in more flameouts than the straight over the top approach.

3. The Jays have a surplus of good pitching prospects, and a dearth of quality position players. For this reason the Jays probably value position players more than pitchers at this point.

Unlike some, I don't think this hurts us that much going into 2011, and could help us a great deal down the road. I'm expecting Morrow to continue his late-season form, and Romero and Cecil to both take steps forward. I also expect Drabek to have a solid season - I really like what I saw from him late last year, and in my books he's more than ready to handle the 5 slot for a full season at the MLB level. Rzep and Litsch can battle it out for the last spot, and I'm comfortable with either for a year. I'd prefer Rzep as IMO he has the higher upside, projecting to be a solid #3-#4 starter.

[LittleOzzy]

22 pages? This forum is almost more active today than it was all last season.

[J-Roc]

This deal, and the reactions to it, demonstrate just how hard it is to be the kind of GM AA claims to be. He is not afraid to trade popular players if he thinks it makes sense for the future of the team.

On the surface the Brewers seem to win this deal, but I believe when you look a little closer the Jays do alright.

1. Marcum is not the kind of power arm AA is after to compete in the AL East. His stats against the AL EAST have not been great, even in this his best season to date. AA is selling high, which is what most on this board support.

2. He is an injury risk, having just come back from Tommy John surgery. Let's not forget that at this time last year most people didn't expect anything close to a full season out of Marcum, and those that did didn't expect him to be as good as he was. Going forward, he has an arm motion (inverted W) that has been statistically shown to result in more flameouts than the straight over the top approach.

3. The Jays have a surplus of good pitching prospects, and a dearth of quality position players. For this reason the Jays probably value position players more than pitchers at this point.

Unlike some, I don't think this hurts us that much going into 2011, and could help us a great deal down the road. I'm expecting Morrow to continue his late-season form, and Romero and Cecil to both take steps forward. I also expect Drabek to have a solid season - I really like what I saw from him late last year, and in my books he's more than ready to handle the 5 slot for a full season at the MLB level. Rzep and Litsch can battle it out for the last spot, and I'm comfortable with either for a year. I'd prefer Rzep as IMO he has the higher upside, projecting to be a solid #3-#4 starter.

Everything you say makes some sense if the Jays are NOT interested in Greinke. ie. our plan to compete is still several years away.

[Duffman100]

22 pages? This forum is almost more active today than it was all last season.

I think we should take names of the bunch of us who started this Blue Jays forum. Just so we can all pat each other on the back when the Jays are successful and this board is crazy active.

Me
You
Schad
Avenger
J-Roc
Randle
Dagger
Darth Federer
Relentless

I'm sure there are others.

[Duffman100]

And I'm fine with this trade. Marcum is 29, make way for some young starters. Go get the prospect you've been eyeing for a while.

[luvtheteam]

22 pages? This forum is almost more active today than it was all last season.

I think we should take names of the bunch of us who started this Blue Jays forum. Just so we can all pat each other on the back when the Jays are successful and this board is crazy active.

.

The thing is you don't want it too big. It just gets to cumbersome and the thread volumes are too hard to review. The Raptors board has gone crazy mad! It's great to see all the participation, on the one hand, but there is just way to much to absorb.

I like this forum right now. It could even be a bit busier, but it's pretty good.

[tecumseh18]

We traded Roy Halladay for a prospect and people are cool, we trade Marcum for a prospect and people aren't.

That's because it's the second off-season in a row the Jays have traded their ace pitcher for a player or players who won't help - or even play with - the big club the following year. Is it smart, or just Rogers being cheap while selling long-term hope?

Schad has me convinced that Marcum was a pitcher to deal now. So while I'm not ready to say "in AA we trust" (GMs have broken my heart too often in the past), I'm still willing to give Alex the benefit of the doubt here and with the Gose acquisition. Playing safe is not going to take the Jays to the top.

[Duffman100]

22 pages? This forum is almost more active today than it was all last season.

I think we should take names of the bunch of us who started this Blue Jays forum. Just so we can all pat each other on the back when the Jays are successful and this board is crazy active.

.

The thing is you don't want it too big. It just gets to cumbersome and the thread volumes are too hard to review. The Raptors board has gone crazy mad! It's great to see all the participation, on the one hand, but there is just way to much to absorb.

I like this forum right now. It could even be a bit busier, but it's pretty good.

True. Then it's like the Raptors board and it's just plain exhausting.

Could you imagine someone going 0-4 then 3-4 then 0-4, then 4-4....the board would shutdown.

[j127]

Do we know the full deal though? I'm reading the Blue Jays message board and I'll quote one of the posters:

we won't know for sure if it is just lawrie straight up because they can't say anything official until after friday's rule 5 draft...till then they are leaks or assumptions on it being only one player and who it is...though more than likely it is just lawrie, we are not sure if there is anybody else yet coming our way

[trwi7]

Do we know the full deal though? I'm reading the Blue Jays message board and I'll quote one of the posters:

we won't know for sure if it is just lawrie straight up because they can't say anything official until after friday's rule 5 draft...till then they are leaks or assumptions on it being only one player and who it is...though more than likely it is just lawrie, we are not sure if there is anybody else yet coming our way

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/111363479.html

Not sure why they wouldn't be able to say anything official until after the Rule 5 draft.

[tecumseh18]

True. Then it's like the Raptors board and it's just plain exhausting.

Could you imagine someone going 0-4 then 3-4 then 0-4, then 4-4....the board would shutdown.

Baseball doesn't attract the bipolar, instant-gratification crowd. Each individual game or even 3-4 game series is simply not that important in the course of a season. Prospects, especially pitchers, can't be rushed, although some teams (the Nationals) sometimes forget that.

Back in the day, Howard Cosell, then the voice of boxing and Monday Night Football, tried being a baseball PBP guy on the short-lived Monday Night Baseball. The problem was that Howard's whole schtick was to play up the monumental importance of the event, the clash of titans, the Thrilla in Manila, Cowboys vs Redskins, yadda, yadda. But you can't do that for a baseball game in June. Major fail.

[tempests_dawn]

22 pages? This forum is almost more active today than it was all last season.

Where's that 1 billion page thread on the Blue Jays before this forum existed? =)

[LittleOzzy]

22 pages? This forum is almost more active today than it was all last season.

Where's that 1 billion page thread on the Blue Jays before this forum existed? =)

Gone, along with a ton of other old threads when they updated the forum.

[Avenger]

Selling high only makes sense if you are getting good value. The Jays didn't.

that's what you said about Wallace and he went on to hit .222 with a 13:1 K/BB ratio